XPS 8930, freezes for 3-5 seconds

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@DELL-Cares wrote:

I'm unable to view the image. Please send the image to smac_support@dell.com and keep us posted, Also, please continue via private note for further assistance on this.

Meanwhile, regard to the update BIOS update, you could directly upgrade the latest version and that should install without any error.

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Here's the image that @Moab23 posted. I think you should see it immediately since I posted it.

That popup -which I've never seen before seems to imply that some prior BIOS update(s) are required before applying 1.1.10. Since Moab23 already has .6, it would -IMO- be prudent to do .8 before .10.

EDIT: Sorry about the cursor over the red triangle, but that was the only way I could get the popup to stay up.

I'm unable to view the image. Please send the image to smac_support@dell.com and keep us posted, Also, please continue via private note for further assistance on this.

Meanwhile, regard to the update BIOS update, you could directly upgrade the latest version and that should install without any error.

@RoHe 

Okay, thank you. I still don't quite trust myself to do it properly, with the USB and what not and F12. I'm taking it to the shop on Tuesday (unfortunate dental appointment tomorrow). I've downloaded the urgent files on the drivers and downloads page associated with my service tag.

I've put the files into a folder for them, then created two separate folders inside this each holding one of the BIOS updates: 1.1.8 and 1.1.10 for them to copy to a USB. I'll move that whole folder to desktop for them to find easily. 

Along with this my power supply will be upgraded and the CPU cooler and top exhaust fans replaced with Arctic models. Fingers crossed this corrects the freeze completely. I'm still rather curious as to whether it is something tied to Support Assist. 

Disabling remediation and adjusting my HDD power settings solved the more frequent small freezing. I just worry about the larger total freeze taking place when the HDD is saving or something and causing damage.

If you are telling me that Dell drivers are superior to the clean drivers from the manufacturers you are wrong. Again, if the fix requires turning off features of the OS it is a hardware design issue and Dell needs to step up and admit it and offer those of us that bought faulty machines a solution. Dell has said NOTHING about this issue. If you look at this support forum hosted by Dell run by non-Dell employees with no actual access to Dell information other than what is posted publicly you will see that the issue is very wide spread to be almost if not universal and that people that report "fixes" almost always report that the issue has returned at a later point. The machines all pass Dell's hardware diagnostics because the issue is not a failure it is a poor design that causes random performance errors. One of the devices gets stepped on, the driver for that device (usually the audio subsystem) fails and the machine freezes until the driver recovers. 

@J__S  -  A user posted that stopping the hard drive from turning off in the Win 10 Power plan solved the freezing problem on their XPS 8930 when removing SupportAssist and its Remediation Service didn't fix it. So have you tried that?

And I just saw a post from a user saying their XPS 8930 automatically updated to BIOS 1.1.12. This version isn't listed on the XPS 8930 support page -yet- so we'll have to wait until it appears to know what was updated...

And if you're not using Dell's own drivers, there's no way to know what's going on with your system.

I get the freezes on a machine with a clean load of Windows 10 that has never had the Dell Support Assist or any associated Dell Services. It has a hand load of all of the correct drivers from the manufacturers and not the Dell munged ones. It has the latest bios and updates for all of the hardware. If it were a software or firmware issue Dell would have published a clear fix by now. This is an issue with the PCIe bus design and the devices stepping on each other.

@J__S 

Currently, the only freeze I get is a very sporadic one that only occurs when playing a game (intensity of the game requirements doesn't seem to matter). I've had this one happen about 7 times since I got the computer back in August. Its different from the intermittent freezing, which I solved by adjusting the HDD power settings and removing SupportAssist Remediation (or setting it to manual in services.msc).

I last had a freeze in game last Sunday (I think it was). Didn't play anything for a few days, but since Thursday I've played a few hours per night and no issue. I've updated my GPU Nvidia drivers since the last freeze as well. I dunno whether that may have solved the problem either, since it was at least two weeks between my fixing the smaller freezes before the total freeze affected me again.

When I play a game, I use a small desk fan to add additional cooled air to the side vents to (hopefully) aid cooling of the internals. What I do notice is that when I play a game, or move the camera in a 3D rendering program, you hear a bit of a buzzing sound. In the latter its only when the camera is moved, in the former its throughout gameplay  (I'm not sure if this is coil whine or not). It doesn't happen in normal usage or watching videos or anything. The crash/freeze in my rendering program would happen if you enabled lighting and moved the camera. A later check of event viewer noted a 'kernel power 41' error.

The steps I'm taking/taken are:

Updating the GPU drivers (I did this from Nvidia's site)

Replacing the PSU with a larger one (I presume my system has a 460W and total component wattage is 412W)

Replacing the CPU cooler and top exhaust fan in an effort to improve cooling.

Having the BIOS updated. 

I am hoping this ultimately fixes it, but I have no way to be sure. Knowing prior luck, probably not. 

Just note this isn't the 3-5 second freeze I've seen a lot of people mention before, but appears to be separate. I fixed the 3-5 second one by ensuring my HDD doesn't go to sleep, and setting SA Remediation to 'manual'.

Update:

I've had the new parts installed, everything fits and works. 

Unfortunately, it seems they forgot about updating the BIOS, so I'm still on 1.1.6.

They mentioned they could do it, but said it was always risky to do. It would have also meant keeping it in overnight.

I've decided to bring it home for now and see how it goes. A little peeved that it wasn't done within the allocated time frame. I was called early afternoon and told half an hour to an hour left, but then two hours later I had to call to find it was ready. 

I'm certainly hoping it wasn't reliant on the BIOS assisting the new fans, because it'd mean having to take it back again, and holding onto those BIOS files myself until then. Sigh.

EDIT: I dunno what has happened here. First off, the Arctic exhaust fan seems to shift very little air despite being listed as a higher RPM and moving 43 CFM. I don't know what the stock fan's volume numbers were, but I was certain I found it spinning at 1200RPM (the Arctic is 1800RPM).

There's a very slight clicking sound coming from what sounds like the top fan as well. I'm hoping they've actually set it to exhaust the air rather than suck it in, and haven't just plugged it into the PSU because it'll be working at a fixed speed. It didn't seem to change speed that I noticed when I entered a game, but the air coming out is definitely hotter than before. 

Now I don't know if the fan isn't adequate, if the cooler isn't adequate, if the BIOS updates would have helped, of if its the PSU cabling inside that's causing problems

I felt like I've spent a load of money to maybe not ultimately correct the problem but actually make my system worse. To top it all off, after thinking I was in the clear yesterday, I learned today that I need to get a filling at the dentist's >< What a day

@Moab23   - Run it for a while to see if the bigger PSU stops the random freezes. If not, contact Dell Tech Support to ask about possibly replacing the GPU.

You'll have to ask the shop how they installed and wired the fans etc.  Could some cable be hitting the fan blades and causing noise? Read this about mis-routed PSU cables in the XPS 8930 that interfere with the chassis fan and cause noise.

Don't know why they'd need to keep the PC overnight to do a BIOS update because it takes only a few minutes to run, and either the PC boots -or not- afterwards... BTW: I asked my Dell tech contact about the red triangle and pop-up next to the BIOS update entry on the support page. He'd never seen that before, either. He said it's ok to go directly to the latest version. Since there's at least one report of a new BIOS 1.1.12, you might wait until it's offered on the support page and update directly to that version instead of to 1.1.10, but that's your decision.

@Moab23  - Disable Dell Update and manually do those updates yourself if the shop didn't do them for you.

If it were my PC, I'd go directly from 1.1.6 to 1.1.10 - one less chance for problems. My Dell tech contact said it's ok to run it from inside Windows. Here are his recommendations:

• Download/Save the BIOS file to the Windows desktop
• Turn the PC off
• Disconnect all external devices (drives, printer, headset, etc.) from the PC. Leave only the following devices and cables connected: power cable, ethernet cable, monitor video cable, wired USB mouse, wired USB keyboard
• Turn PC on
• Close/end task all unnecessary software applications (SupportAssist, Steam, Anti-virus, etc.)
• Find the saved BIOS file on the Windows desktop
• Right click the file and choose, "Run as administrator".
  Note, you do not need to extract the file. Just run it.
• Follow the prompts. The PC will reboot on its own. Do NOT force it to reboot or power it off

If it were my PC, I'd do the update using the USB stick from the F12 boot menu instead of from inside Windows, but I would disconnect everything except the devices and cables listed above.

Do you really need to swap fans again now? Why not just run it this way and use Speccy (free) or HWMonitor (free) to keep an eye on CPU/GPU temps. If you still think it's too warm, then you can swap fans again.

@RoHe 

I did a test in my 3D rendering program, moving the camera with the lights on (this would often cause the freeze). I did it quite a bit, using one of the original culprit models. It didn't freeze. Whether this was a coincidental fluke, hard to say. Somewhat encouraging. A friend once suggested to me that the program isn't the most optimised, and could have caused combined CPU/GPU spikes that the PSU couldn't handle. 

I've also discovered what's wrong with the fan: its not as powerful.

Looking at the VM20H pulled from the computer, I was able to enter the serial number and finally discover the actual specs. It moves 60+ CFM compared to 40+ of the new one. Now I feel daft, probably moreso when I have to take it back around to be swapped over again. Sigh. If only I could discover the specs of these OEM parts without having to physically inspect them. Fortunately, the removed power supply was 460W, so I did at least upgrade in that arena.

Thanks for the info about the BIOS. So its perfectly fine to jump from 1.1.6 to 1.1.10? I might as well go with that for now if it further improves the cooling. If only I could be rid of that constant Dell Update notification telling me its updated and then 'five updates ready'.

@RoHe 

I'm afraid even with those steps I'd still feel a lack of confidence in doing it correctly, like stopping all the right programs or disconnecting all the right things. Do bot those things still need to be done when using it from the F12 boot menu? I really do apologise for being so bumbling with all of this. 

I'm afraid it was a noticeable difference ingame. The stock fan is shifting about another 17 cubic feet of air per min by comparison as it turns out. My external USB fan was able to cool things a bit, but it would be preferred if it didn't feel anywhere near as warm when I directed that away. Especially if heating was an element in the original issue. Any gain in cooling I got from the CPU cooler is likely offset by that reduced air extraction. 

I'm going to take it back in tomorrow to see if I can get this resolved. 

I wish I had the confidence and better know how to pull it off myself. 

@RoHe 

Thanks for being so patient and helpful, Ron. Really appreciated. What I might do is take it in and ask them to connect it up to show them the file and copy it to a USB there and then (when I picked it up they quickly plugged it in to show me everything was working at the same desk you drop it off on).

You'd think not but...if it wasn't already evident I'm something of a pessimist

That's the simplicity of doing the BIOS update from the F12 menu.

You set this PC up so think of it as just doing the reverse. Power off and disconnect all the unnecessary peripherals, keeping only the monitor, mouse and keyboard connected. I suspect your peripherals are all connected via USB, so just unplug them from the PC. If you use WiFi for your internet connection, you won't even have an ethernet cable.

Then plug a USB stick with the BIOS 1.1.10 .exe file into the PC, power the PC on and immediately press F12. You should see "BIOS Update" listed as an option on the F12 menu. Select that option and it should do its thing and reboot back to the desktop when done.

IMHO, this can't be harder/worse than going to the dentist !