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April 16th, 2021 21:00

Aurora R12, Unacceptable BIOS/Z490 configuration, 11th Gen Intel CPU's (RocketLake)

Dear Dell Team, dear community,

some technical findings with your latest Aurora R12 Rocket Lake rigs with a focus on memory.

Dell RocketLake Ram Issues.jpg

 

Issues:
1) Memory Controller is fixed to Gear 2 Mode despite memory clock. It should stick to Gear 1 until 3600MT/s memory frequency. Otherwise an option in BIOS has to be provided to change modes manually.

2) Read Value has a consistent and massive penalty applied when any XMP profile is enabled.

3) Memory latency is too high for the trained values. Please compare with Gigabyte, ASRock, MSI, ASUS motherboards with same kit and CPU.

4) CPU cache is all over the place with massive fluctuations that will impact gaming likewise (esp. L3).


It is reasonable to continue using Z490 for Rocket Lake. The choice not to allow for manual memory overclocking is fine IF the above is fixed given you are marketing the product to a certain clientele.

Yet the necessary work to at least deliver an acceptable performance in line with other board manufacturers has to be done.

Unfortunately, in the current state, this system configuration is unacceptable. Please check with the ODM of the board and make necessary adjustments.

Should you have any further questions please do not hesitate to contact me.

42 Posts

August 3rd, 2021 06:00

There won't be an update on this if you believe the community manager post some time ago.

Dell apparently decided to overlook Intel's specification to default gear 2 regardless of the memory frequency.

Then there is no way to make use of higher frequency memory to compensate for this ... which essentially means all R12 systems are pretty much flawed.

Try to make noise to return them, or accept having paid 'way' more than you should for the performance you end up with.

Community Manager

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54.2K Posts

July 23rd, 2021 07:00

This is by design. There is no memory controller Gear 1 or Gear 2 option in the Dell OEM (original equipment manufacturer) BIOS. The retail Intel documentation discussing memory controller Gear 1 and Gear 2 do not apply to the Dell OEM BIOS, motherboard, and ram.

42 Posts

April 16th, 2021 22:00

1) As per intel specsheet gear 1 has to be selected up to DDR4-3200. Other OEM's default this until 3600. This is not done here.

2) Read performance is cut half when XMP is enabled. This is in no way an issue connected to Intel or the Memory Manufacturer.

3) If you looked at the values trained by the board for the respective frequencies (and understood a thing or two about it) you would notice the latency you end up with does not reflect these timings. Just take the same CPU and same memory kit and slot it into any up to date rocket lake compatible board of one of the 4 big names and you'll figure.

4) Unrelated to this issue, however thanks for posting the JEDEC sheet, have a look at the Intel 11th gen spec sheet (memory support) so you stop spreading false information on supported memory frequencies.

9 Legend

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47K Posts

April 16th, 2021 22:00

You are complaining about the SPD settings for Dell Ram.

SPD CAS latency is not controlled by bios its controlled by what is in the ram SPD.

Putting faster ram in doesn't speed up system performance significantly.

You don't seem to like that so complain to Intel.

Putting 4266 ram into a PC wont make it suddenly run at that speed.  Anything past 2666 is mostly marketing not actual performance.

Core i5-11400F paired with DDR4-3733 MHz memory, is 1.5% faster with Gear 2, when averaged across CPU tests, compared to Gear 1 at the same 3733 MHz frequency. Gear 2 was 3.42% faster in Cine bench R23 multi-threaded.

I don't call that significant at the cost of memory life and stability.

 

42 Posts

April 16th, 2021 22:00

Sorry mate, but you seem to have understood very little about what I explained.

Have a good look at what I wrote and the numbers I provided. If you don't understand something don't pick out one thing you believe you have an idea about and write such an answer.

No offense intended.

 

9 Legend

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47K Posts

April 16th, 2021 22:00

"Memory latency is too high for the trained values."

This is controlled by the SPD not bios or dell.

putting faster ram in doesn't significantly increase system speed especially for INTEL cpus.

Memory Latency Goes UP as the unrealistic speed goes up.  Anything past JEDEC is marketing and depends on CPU as well as chip set and Bios.

https://www.jedec.org/content/pc4-2666-unbuffered-dimm-2

For example: Systems using 3200MHz memory.

Intel Core i3/i5 processors, it is limited to 2666MHz.

Intel Core i7/i9 processors, it is limited to 2933MHz.

You wont find CAS 16   3200 Mhz memory.

Even for AMD past 3200 is mostly marketing.

That may change but not with OEM chipsets.

Mhz myth is alive and well.

Faster ram does make a difference but its not 4X faster

Its more like 5 percent faster and its not across the board.

You want to go with Team RED AMD if you want faster ram that actually runs faster.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D_Yt4vSZKVk

 

42 Posts

April 16th, 2021 23:00

1) Gear 1 default specification: https://newsroom.intel.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2021/03/11th-gen-intel-core-s-series-sku-tables.pdf 

"3.Two channel DDR4 2DPC is supported when channel is populated with the same DIMM part number.Symmetric configurations are required for 2DPC within one channel.i9-11900K(F) SKUs are DDR4-3200 Gear 1.All other SKUs are DDR4-3200 Gear 2.DDR4-2933 is Gear 1."

2) Clearing up on your missinformation on supported jdec memory speeds for i9/i7/i5 11th gen product brief.png

 

Again, my problem is not with you, this is not personal. Your comprehension and advises given in this instance are just simply wrong.

Thanks however for tagging someone who might understand.

42 Posts

April 16th, 2021 23:00

i9-11900K(F) SKUs are DDR4-3200 Gear 1.All other SKUs are DDR4-3200 Gear 2.DDR4-2933 is Gear 1.

Did you read this? Come on...

9 Legend

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47K Posts

April 16th, 2021 23:00

 

You say " As per intel specsheet gear 1 has to be selected up to DDR4-3200" and yet you don't post link to said sheet? What is the limit is Directly controlled by the CPU you are talking about because the memory controller is built into the cpu now and the FSB is locked for most processors.

Which specific information is "false"? You also do not post any information related to the significance of Gear 1 vs Gear 2 in regards to stability and longevity of the cpu and ram let alone the increase in performance.  Increase of less than even 5 percent is not statistically significant.

@Dell-BradL   or @DELL-Chris M 

Might have more information as to XMP timings and limitations.

I know well more than a thing or 2 and XMP is not one stop shopping on demand overclock.  Depends on BIOS , CPU, Chipset, Ram SPD, Etc.

CAS latency increasing with ram speed is fact not false information.

CAS latency cannot be controlled by BIOS.

AIDA64, CPU-Z, HWMonitor, etc are not Dell software and Not supported.

Intel i7-11700K Memory Benchmarks: Gear 1 vs. Gear 2 on 3200MHz

42 Posts

April 16th, 2021 23:00

additionally an excerpt from the ASUS RocketLake reviewers guide on gears. Before you say it's untrue others default gear 1 beyond 3200.

gear defaulting ASUS.jpg

42 Posts

April 16th, 2021 23:00

Please, apparently it is getting late.

Have a rest and tomorrow you have a look at the entry post and see what gear the memory controller is running in the for jdec/xmp profiles of the two different kits.

Notice anything?

I'd also appreciate if you'd refrain from posting unrelated videos and stuck to official documentations.

9 Legend

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47K Posts

April 16th, 2021 23:00

Looking at your marketing picture in the teeny tiny print below I find the following which I do not recognize as a "spec" on INTEL ARK etc for Chip set or Processor. or XMP. You post little to no written information as to CPU type, Ram Vendor, the Spec for the Ram Vendor etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AgFlB0HG_84


Intel® processor numbers are not a measure of performance.Processor numbers differentiate features within each processor family, not across different processor families.

All processors are lead-free (per EU RoHS directive July 2006) and halogen free (residual amounts of halogens are below November 2007 proposed IPC/JEDEC J-STD-709 standards).
All processors support Intel® Virtualization Technology (Intel® VT-x).

1.Intel® Thermal Velocity Boost feature is opportunistic at a temperature of 70°C or lower and when turbo power budget is available.The frequency gain and duration
is dependent on the workload (best for burstyworkloads), capabilities of the individual processor, and the processor cooling solution.Frequencies may reduce over time
and longer workloads may start at the max frequency but drop as processor temperature increases.


2.Altering clock frequency or voltage may void any product warranties and reduce stability, security, performance, and life of the processor and other components.Check with system and component manufacturers for details.


3.Two channel DDR4 2DPC is supported when channel is populated with the same DIMM part number. Symmetric configurations are required for 2DPC within one channel. i9-11900K(F) SKUs are DDR4-3200 Gear 1
All other SKUs are DDR4-3200 Gear 2

2. DDR4-2933 is Gear 1.

Since boards are designed to work with many processors Gear 1 makes sense as it works across all.

No proof whatsoever that Gear 2 is significantly better in anything.   Less than .05 is not statistically significant.

Intel Core i7-11700K CPU vs. AMD 5800X, 5900X

 

9 Legend

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47K Posts

April 16th, 2021 23:00

https://newsroom.intel.com/wp-content/uploads/sites/11/2021/03/11th-gen-intel-core-s-series-sku-tables.pdf

Doesn't say anything about Gear1 vs Gear2 or latency or statistical significance.

Nor does your picture of High end cpus say anything about Gear1 or Gear 2 or provide any evidence of statistical significance.

 

9 Legend

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47K Posts

April 17th, 2021 00:00

You need to stop posting what I do or do not understand.

passive aggressive personal attacks merit a permanent ban.

@Dell-BradL   or @DELL-Chris M  will have more specific information.

As to ODM (Original Design Manufacturer) they don't post that and they don't discuss that with outside parties. There is  a way to figure that out from the PPID (Piece Part Identification) numbers but that too is not published.

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000139589

I have posed specific questions in writing and to date your response is to say I'm wrong without specifically saying what is wrong.  You have posted zero specifications for CPU, RAM, BIOS,VERSION etc.  XMP is not on demand and its not user controlled other than to enable or disable it.

Your assertions are without merit.

Your Gear2 vs Gear 1 is statistically insignificant.

Past 2666 there is some improvement but less than .05 is hardly worth the effort.

CPU, Motherboard, bios version, Ram Vendor , part number,SPD cas latency / voltage whether Jedec or XMP are all specifications relevant.

Altering clock frequency or voltage 1.35v may void any product warranties and reduce stability, security, performance, and life of the processor and other components. Check with system and component manufacturers for details.

9 Legend

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47K Posts

April 17th, 2021 00:00

Intel Newsroom briefs are not "official" documentation.

Posting pictures vs actual part numbers etc is not official documentation.

Intel has many specifications on their site including tested ram for XMP for example.

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/gaming/extreme-memory-profile-xmp.html

They even certify 3200 

AO1P32MCSV1-BD6S Dell Precision 7750 (BIOS / 1.1.2 )

3200MHz 1.2v    CAS   21-21-21-44

 

There is no discussion as to posting pics and saying I'm wrong without writing down what is "wrong".

Gear 1 is what most vendors are using right now.

Demanding that Dell work with Joes Crab shack ram in XMP 3200 3200 CAS 16-18-18-38 1.35v Gear 2 with ANY CPU is neither reasonable or practical.

Dell designed the board with Gear1 and

Intel Core i3/i5 processors, it is limited to 2666MHz

Intel Core i7/i9 processors, it is limited to 2933MHz.

@DELL-Chris M may have more information but would need exact model and service tag.

I don't work for Dell so I cannot ask for that.

3200 CAS 16-18-18-38  1.35v reduces the life of the ram and cpu.

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