Aurora R13, Thunderbolt 4 or USB 4 add-in card

What card did you have in mind?

I've seen pages (and read rumors) of it working without one ... but only way I know of dropping-in a PCIe Thunderbolt Addin card (and it actually working) is when a Thunderbolt-Header is actually provided on the motherboard itself.

https://www.sweetwater.com/sweetcare/articles/thunderbolt-installation-creation-station/

That's where all the confusion comes from, one would think that the R13's motherboard would support the latest intel z690 expansions. My understanding is that this specific header is used to supply the high watt power used in Thunderbolt 3 / 4 devices. The add-in card itself does not supply the power, it gets its power from the motherboard through this header. Unfortunately I can't confirm that.

What bothers me is that almost all major motherboard manufacturers (Asus, MSI, Gigabyte, ASRock, etc...) who make the z690 board all include this header for the expansion card. Each manufacturer has their own expansion card. So I'm not sure if the one you linked above can work with the R13's motherboard, and if it does, where is this header located ? I can't find it in the motherboard manual.

There was a vociferous community debate on Dell TB3 in Aurora 7-9, Optiplex 7070, XPS8930.  https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/thunderbolt-3-pcie-card-2-type-c-ports-1-dp-in/apd/555-beox/pc-accessories#compatibility_section
It is known to work in 8930 w/o mobo header.

Then there is Dell TB4 full height for tower, which Dell says c/w 7090 “Micro”, ? documentation error (micro cannot support a full height card).  they meant 7090 tower.  Manufacturer Part JYNYY | Dell Part 540-BDCB

https://www.dell.com/en-us/shop/thunderbolt-4-pcie-card-full-height-customer-kit-for-tower/apd/540-bdcb/networking#support_section

Of note 7090 tower does have TB header on mobo #17 

R13 has no such header.

@tansoftware 

@Vanadiel 

@Tesla1856 

Oficially its not supported. No security settings in bios,  However Jumpering the GC-TITAN RIDGE card GPIO header and re writing the firmware to set Thunderbolt Security to NONE seems to have worked for some.

 patch the Thunderbolt controller firmware

 Part 2: Retrofitting PCI Hot-Plug To The UEFI

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@speedstep wrote:

 

@Tesla1856 

Officially  its not supported. No security settings in bios,  However Jumpering the GC-TITAN RIDGE card GPIO header and re writing the firmware to set Thunderbolt Security to NONE seems to have worked for some.

 

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Yes, I found that page a while back and proceeded to post it in a couple of threads here since.

I usually take your lead and post a link referring to "motherboard header required" as I know that works and is the more-accepted solution.

If users are persistent (and have the skills to follow-thru) I sometimes go on to post Matt's page.  It's just that I usually try to stick to posting solutions that I have first-hand knowledge of ... and as of yet ... I have not explored adding a real Thunderbolt port to any of my Windows Desktops. I already have Apple Macs and XPS/Precision-laptops with native ones.

So from all the solutions mentioned above, I guess the easiest approach would be to get the dell TB3 add-in card which does not require a dedicated header connection from the motherboard. But there is still the Thunderbolt Security setting in the BIOS. I don't recall seeing this setting anywhere in the R13's BIOS settings.

I find this to be a lot easier than the GC-TITAN RIDGE approach which requires patching the card's firmware and jumpering certain pins, not to mention modifying the UEFI with custom made drivers to support hot-plug. Even after all of this, there is no guarantee that the GC-TITAN RIDGE add-in card will work as the solution mentioned in Matt's blog is custom tailored to the motherboard he used to test his solution.

Has anyone tried the official Dell TB3 add-in card on their R13 ? I find it weird that the card is not supported on the Aurora R10, R11, R12, R13, and R14

Since Dell has not yet released thunderbolt driver under chipset category for a specific desktop model such as R11/R12/R13, the chance of having the board recognize TB card is uncertain.  It seems Dell has been favoring the optiplex Q chipset mostly for TB driver development.  The only 4 models of non-optiplex Dell that enjoy TB drivers are all Z370 chipset (R7/8/9/XPS8930).  It is possible that after that Dell has decided to ignore the newer Z chipset in terms of TB capabilities.

e.g., Dell has released specific TB driver for these chipsets (Z370, Q270, Q370, Q470, Q570, Q670) in these models

• Aurora R9  (1.41.613.1, A03)
• Optiplex 7090 (1.41.1054.0, A07)
• Optiplex 7080/7071, Aurora R9  (1.41.987.0, A09)
• Aurora R7, R8, XPS 8930, Optiplex 7050/7060/XE3/7000/XE4 (1.41.1193.0, A08)

the physical steps of installing TB3 card is provided by Dell.

https://www.dell.com/support/kbdoc/en-us/000126038/dell-thunderbolt-3-pcie-installation-process

1. PCIe card is added to PCIe Slot. (See Figure.1)
   
    
   Figure.1 PCIe Slot
   
2. Once the PCIe card is added. You need a Display Port to Display Port cable to plugin form the PCIe  Card Display Port to the Graphics Card Display Port. (See Figure.2)
   
    
   Figure.2 DP to DP Cable
   
3. Once the card has been installed, if it is a Thunderbolt PCIe card you will need to update the latest Thunderbolt Controller Driver

1. some more info on the Dell TB3 Add-in-card

Alpine-ridge. 40408i933461C78C218772 (991×168) (dell.com)

Dell Part SKU 555-BEOX DP/N 7XY5K

40406i6D01DEDE3D44D15B (1741×739) (dell.com)

2. good read on TBAIC

https://www.mattmillman.com/why-that-thunderbolt-add-in-card-doesnt-work-properly-in-your-unsupported-pc/

So, contrary to what many answered you, actually, yes you can install a thunderbolt 4 add on card WITHOUT a thunderbolt header being present. 

now most everyone will tell you don’t even bother with this install method but it does work for the most part with several published tests across the web. A really good one was about a guy trying to install a ASUS Gigbyte thunderbolt 4 card inside of a am4 x570 (amd... so no thunderbolt since thunderbolt=intel)

anyways, his motherboard that he used in the tests were a ASRock x570... I believe it’s the Taichi... both of the three highest cost models in the x570 line for asrock... they literally STATE thunderbolt support along with a header... in the specs and description. Same goes for a couple higher end ASUS x570s like the republic of gamers Rog model I believe. Lists thunderbolt support and ASUS literally makes a add in card for the ASUS models. 

now upon inspection of his add on card and the actual motherboards.... what he found was that this was bad marketing as those mobo’s technically actually use a usb 3.2 gen 2 header where the “thunderbolt” header is supposed to exist. The flaw there? Usb 3.2 gen 2 goes near same speeds as thunderbolt 3.... but that’s in one direction. Thunderbolt offers full throughout going both directions at once. Usb 3.2 gen 2 only goes half of the max throughput if the opposite direction is fully saturated. 

if I remember right he actually had to do some slight modification and welding to short out a few things in order to get the thunderbolt add on card to operate properly... something about thunderbolt expects more power but if you don’t short out a pin on the header when using the x570 boards, it will essentially operate like trash, because the pin on the add on card expects full power.... nothing is providing it... cuz usb 3.2 gen 2 doesn’t have a power pin there... something like that. 

anyways he got it working. He said in no way was the ASUS add on card compatible as advertised for the x570 boards and was prob why they kinda just faded away without much being said or done. Apparently amd thought they were going to have a agreement in place to start using thunderbolt tech in the x570/pcie 4.0 generation but something fell through before launch.... but ASUS and AsRock had already “made” motherboards “supporting it”. One of those sorts deals. 

anyways his tests on the speeds weren’t bad. Essentially he was getting around 65-75% of the normal expected speeds and rates for a native/intel thunderbolt install/setup....

using the same add on card for a ASUS intel mobo provided close to full perfoormamce as a native setup of thunderbolt. 

anyways my point is... yes you 100% can setup a thunderbolt add on card on a mobo without a thunderbolt header. (I mean thunderbolt 3 is essentially advertised as the equivalent of usb 3.2 gen 2... usb 4 is supposed to be the equivalent of thunderbolt 4... but usb 4 keeps getting delayed and intel is already releasing thunderbolt 5 in a month or two and have disclosed rumored specs for thunderbolt 6 as well )

anyways installing it correctly so you don’t fry the vrm’s on your mobo... will require a lot of technical expertise... I have built 6 rigs (4four crypto setups and two super gaming rigs) and I won’t even touch the install... nope...

if you really want blazing fast transfer speeds like that... look at Ethernet or even DisplayPort (rarely will you have a situation where DisplayPort can be used in this manner but there are some pricy combos out there)

Ethernet has kinda topped for a bit at 10 gig Ethernet. And prices of add in cards and switches and cables/adapters/hubs have come down a ton in the past year or so. 

you can grab a 10gig switch supporting either fiber connectors or traditional rj45 connectors from brands like mirotik on Amazon for like $75-$100 last I checked for something like 4-6 ports upwards to like $180 for something like 20 ports. 

then grab a 10gig add in card if you have pcie 4.0 support on your mobo. And aren’t saturating all the lanes with a ton of other stuff... cuz each of these cards will take at least a 4x8 slot for dual ports most times I have seen. 

the cards I have seen recently run from like $85-$120 ish I believe on Amazon for a reputable ish brand (it’s Amazon. Like every single electronics brand selling on Amazon these days are Asian false fronted store fronts selling knockoffs usually works okay most times though surprisingly)

anyways, once you have your switch and add in cards (if you want to max out ports and add in two cards if you have the lanes like I do (4 4x16 lanes, 1 3x16 lane, 3 4x4 lanes for m.2 cards like ssds or modems or such that is expandable into 5 3x4 lanes with an adapter that was included with the mobo, and then 6 friggin 4x1 lanes. Yea. It’s a ton. I run three 10gig add in cards taking up three of my 16 lanes with the other going to my main driver gpu.

then you need legit cat 7/8 cabling. It’s become decently cheaper in recent years. Def try for cat 8. It handles overhead/distance much better than 7 and offers much higher throughput potential. I got like a pack of 6 cat 8 cables running 5m up to 15m each for like $22. Work great. From cable creation. Super durable. Good materials.

then you can use another add in card on a separate device to complete the cycle/group/pairing whatever (keep in mind keep out any eth connections lower than 10gig in this local network you are setting up because if you have anything lower than a 10gig connection anywhere in the network, you max speed possible anywhere will be that lower Ethernet speed. (Unless you got a smart switch usually range around $250 from mirotik. They will load balance and aggregate any and all connections but that’s for another time)

OR..... you can use a nvme speed ssd. Don’t buy any of those “advertised” super fast external ssd drives. I have a Samsung t5. I like it. It works well. But it doesn’t perform anywhere near as fast as my Samsung 970 pcie 3.0 nvme ssd that cost me $55 bucks less than the t5 while having double the space (1tb vs 500gb...$50 vs. $105)

go on Amazon. Look for nvme ssds internal.. not external.... look at brands like “team group” and “crucial”. Even sabrent has some fast options that can be cheap. I personally usually buy from team group. They look shady but they actually put out some of the best performing memory products available for the amd platforms for a fraction of the price. Don’t believe me? Look up teamgroup ddr4 memory Samsung b-die AMD AM4..... just Reddit search it. Or Google search it and get blown away. 

anyways, I usually buy their 1tb ssd options. They have various generations of nvme ssds on their so pay careful attention to the specs listed before buying as they surprisingly stay priced fairly the same across generations, despite the obvious performance hikes each time. Usually only see like a $10-$15 increase. 

anywasy, the last one I bought was a latest model 1tb pcie 4.0 ssd that was stated to have theoretical numbers in the 5500-6500 write and 7000 read speeds.... that’s as fast as the fastest pcie 4.0 ssds out there. Even faster than the “king” Samsung 980 pro. And it only cost me $127. 

you can find 1tb internal ssds from the same brands for as little as $55-$75 as well depending how low you are willing to go in terms of speed and performance. The lowest 1tb ssd I found was a crucial 3D nand nvme ssd at only pcie 3 speeds... its max speeds listed I believe 1050 write and 2800 read

teamgroup also usually ranges about $65 for a 1 tb going around 3500 write and 3000/4000 read. That’s literally 3 times faster than the newest “king” of external ssd speeds. The crucial x1 or whatever that maxes out at 1000 read and write. For half the cost. 

Once you have some ssds, you need to decide how to connect them to Ethernet... there does exist nvme ssd external enclosure adapters made specifically for 10gig adapter connections that provides a 10gig rj45 port. It’s from sabrent I believe. 

there are also TONS of 10gig E to USB 3.2 gen 2/thunderbolt adapters out there  sabrent sells a ton of diff options and varieties  qnap also has one for $65 last I saw  

sabrent ALSO offers a thunderbolt 3 AND thunderbolt 4 to 10gig adapter but that one is pricier  like $130 bucks...

anyways I have gone on my little tangent and ramble long enough...

there would be cost in going this way  and some tinkering on the backend to be able to utilize the Ethernet/network I a way similiar to usb operation to get things running properly  

but it would be a hobbyists dream and the best part? If you use a smart switch with a ton of aggregating ports and multiple ports running from each host device (say two speperate add on cards with two ports each on two diff computers/media servers/NAS) you can actually hit speeds faster than thunderbolt 4 even... and Ethernet handles bi-directional traffic/throughout MUCH better than usb standards... with MUCH less latency.... and allows for much longer runs/wiring/setups than a usb setup can provide (usb 3.2 gen 2 with integrated chips ... aka if-certified cables start to experience severe overhead and degradation anywhere from 7m on up.. some cables with specially included chips (mostly marketed towards quest 2 owners) work with reasonably low degradation up to 20m long but that’s about the max you run can go unless you introduce a power source before you add another cable/device such a self powered usb hub... but usb 3 gen 2 hubs cost a pretty penny  like $150 or more for once that provides more than a minimal .5v port power output.. which won’t extend your run at all... you need at minimum a 1.5a port.. Ideally a usb c 2.4a port with PD capabilities though.... and that only gets you another 20m

Ethernet however.... 25m runs are a cinch ever since cat 5e came about. Cat 8 supposedly can run upwards of 40-50m with little degradation... and that switch you got? It provides WAY MORE than enough power to extend you run MUCH further... and if you need just a little more distance? Poe injector  just make dang sure it’s rated for 10gig.. many out there don’t even hit 1gig...

• anyways... if you do this... using two separate pcie 4.0 mobos to get max thorighput on the Ethernet ports... using a 10gig switch... and you utilize aggregation and propagation like link bonding and port bondings and such... you could have a upwards of 40-60gig network that provides way more expansion options and use case scenarios than a simple usb 4 or thunderbolt 3/4 port and cable would provide  for about the exact same price (thunderbolt hubs and adapters and cables and cable extenders cost a ton  you can drop upwards of $1000-$1200 just to setup a basic thunderbolt 4 usb hub setup with theee thunderbolt ports... only three ports can be used  

the Ethernet setup? You can have 15-20+ connections if you really want....

I've seen sites (and read stories) of it operating without one... but the only way I've heard of dropping in a PCIe Thunderbolt Addin card (and it genuinely working) is when a Thunderbolt-Header is available on the motherboard itself.

https://pcperk.com/how-to-add-thunderbolt-4-to-pc/