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August 29th, 2006 07:00

Inspiron 9400/ATI x1400/video flicker on external dual lcds

I researched the forum and found that flickering on the external outputs may be related to font size and cables...
I've checked those items they are correct. My issue has been narrowed down to having both the DVI and VGA running together in a dual monitor setup... as long as only one is running, everything is nice and dandy... put both running and there's a quick (less than a second) flicker and it's something that could happen one second and not happen again for 30-90 seconds... maybe more...
 
I've read that running both external outs puts load on the card, but I couldn't imagine that  it's something that can't be resolved...
 
I am running the latest drivers from dell 7/15/2006 for ATI... what are the chances that the card is defective?
 
any other suggestions?
 
if the opinion is that the card is defective, what is the best way to warranty it? meaning... I don't want to be on the phone with a dell tech support guy for 3 hours before they finally realize, "Ok... we'll look into it"
 
inspiron 9400
core duo @1.83
2gb ram
x1400

54 Posts

August 30th, 2006 00:00

Have external LCD flickering on Inspiron 9400, Duo, x1400.  Me thinks this is overload related.  Have one external screen DVI 1600x1200.  Same screen (actually two different models depending where I am) worked fine with Inspiron 9200.  Still investigating.  My problem starts when the machine is running for some time, specifically in afternoon when warmer.  Remove all windows, flickering goes away.  So overload is a bit related to what kind of signal it gets.  Seem very "heat" related.  Don't know yet.  Disappointing, wastes time.  I guess they're pushing the limit.

30 Posts

August 30th, 2006 02:00

interesting... I closed all windows and flicker was gone... So for now... went to wally world for a fan to push fresh cold air to the machine... let's see what happens boys and girls :)

54 Posts

August 30th, 2006 15:00

Here's my experience a day later:

Go to ATI Catalyst Control Center, Advanced..., Digital Panel Properties, Attributes.  There are two options in DVI Settings.  Try them both in different settings.  Remember to hit Apply.  To be sure, restart too.

Mine seems to be working better now with ON Reduce DVI frequency (thought I was down at 60 already, needed it anyway for perfect results, go figure) and OFF Alternate DVI operational (hint from 2005 review of Samsung 243T by Sean Carruther).

Please let us know whether that works for you too.

Too late at night / early in the day to say whether this fix is for good, but seems so far.

For the record, it seems mine was preset OFF Reduce DVI frequency, ON Alternate DVI operational.

Also I have installed and tweaked freeware tool Dell Inspiron fan control utility from diefer.de.  Do that at your own risk.  Takes time to figure, and it is important to do it in a quiet room at first to listen to what's happening with the fans.  Don't use sensor for control, let it do that at simpler Slow and Fast.  Told it to cool all parts, including GPU.  My GPU is now below 50 Celsius, while before it would go over 60 Celsius.

54 Posts

August 31st, 2006 05:00

One hot afternoon later it is still working.  That is as described, on Dell Inspiron 9400, ATI X1400 hooked to external LCD Samsung SyncMaster 204B:  In ATI Catalyst Control Center in Digital Panel Properties in Attributes set ON Reduce DVI frequency, OFF Alternate DVI operational.  Also cooling the GPU to below 50 Celsius with I8kfanGUI from diefer.de.  I hope it will last for me and will work for others too.

30 Posts

September 1st, 2006 01:00

running a fan on the laptop obviously makes the machine cooler... actually a really nice thing to do since now even after hours of runtime the laptop is nice and cool in comparison to having it without. Great $12 purchase, yet it didn't help with the flickering so at least my issue is not temperature related.
 
I tried the suggestion on the DVI frequency... I have two 20" Dell LCDs... they defaulted to 75. Set them to 60 and checkmarked the "Reduce DVI freq..." they still flickered...
 
I then did the "OFF Alternate DVI operational" and they seem stable after 24  hours of usage... we'll keep evaluating and post results some days later...

30 Posts

September 1st, 2006 06:00

Nope... the changes made on the ATI control panel didn't work... flicker is back and fan is keeping machine cool. any ideas out there in the world?
 
Has anyone experienced the same flicker with another video card on a 9400 running dual external monitors/lcds ?!?!?!?!?
 
Trying to investigate:
 
Wondering if it happens more often after the machine comes back from sleep mode.
I've noticed that if I restart the machine, I won't get any flickering for quite a bit of time...
 
I'd say I went about 10 hours without flicker non-stop this time around...
 

54 Posts

September 1st, 2006 13:00

Sorry to hear that.  I'm still fine with mine, and I've left it running.

I'm using I8kfanGUI (3.0 beta 5) from http://www.diefer.de/i8kfan/.  It is free to use.  I have taken the time to figure it out, configure it so it cools the GPU (triggers when it gets hot), not just the CPU.  Using slow/fast mode, not the 0 to 64, to make it work with this Inspiron 9400.  I can describe settings if you can't figure it.  Make sure you don't misconfigure it to fans off and kill your machine.

The ATI X1400 GPU (per I8kfanGUI) seems to be getting hot when running an external screen, compared to other parts in the machine, compared to another Inspiron I have next to it for now.

No external fan could be that good at cooling inside the machine as the fans inside the machine, me thinks.  With sensors to trigger it.  Neat.

On the other hand, one could say you're just doing "too much" with the two external screens.

Also, today I am in an office that is air conditioned, and the machine is much cooler when idling (per I8kfanGUI).

I8kfanGUI isn't perfect, but it is very useful.  The guy writing it just couldn't keep track of all models and undocumented features, for free.  One can donate by PayPal.

30 Posts

September 2nd, 2006 02:00

I installed the app from www.diefer.de/i8kfan...
 
interestingly enough, the temps where already borderline and fans where not even running. I do push the laptop a bit to extremes, but come on, isn't that what computers are for? :)
 
I've readjusted the thresholds for the fans for both cpu and gpu. The www.diefer.de/i8kfan app is pretty good overall. I had problems with MotherBoard Monitor (I believe that is the name)  on another machine some time ago, and hence hesitated in installing i8kfan.... have some midnight oil to burn to tonight so I will post on the flicker issue after adjusting the internal fan thresholds....
 
thanks for the posts vet.

54 Posts

September 6th, 2006 13:00

You shouldn't add a physical fan.  You could/should try running the existing internal fans more often, after carefully figuring out http://www.diefer.de/i8kfan/

I am not sure yet what to do about it.  My machine seems to be working now.  Had a hint of a minimal flicker come back after a few days, so I further reduced the temperature setting for the GPU by another 5 Celsius (45 now).  Flicker is gone.  But doesn't feel right, I am in a seriously air-conditioned (almost refrigerated) office now, and even here fan now never stops.  Will it get worse back at my own office?  Will this machine fail next summer?

This isn't good.  Seems like ATI has a quality or heat or something problem.  I'm not saying it is easy making that stuff.  But is seems they put in more than they can make reliable.  Would be nice to know whether let's say 3% or 1% of users have that problem and Dell could just swap our cards for another X1400?  Or is the whole series unreliable?

61 Posts

September 6th, 2006 13:00

I have the same problem. I sincerely doubt that temperature is a factor. However, it proves to be true, I will not keep the Inspiron 9400. I will insist on a refund. I will definitely not be adding an auxiliary fan to a brand new notebook to keep it cool. I bought this unit specifically because it has DVI out and for the potential of driving two external monitors.
 
As to usage, the same number of pixels are on on whether or not there are windows open. However, more off-screen memory on the card is used when there are more windows open.
 
I operate mine with an external UXGA Samsung monitor in combination with the internal screen, or with a WSXGA+ monitor plus the internal. It happens in both cases.
 
I am not currently running the Catalyst control center. I had to reinstall everything from scratch after the original Seagat HD drive died (7 weeks old). The Catalyst software crashed after install from the original Dell driver disks, so I removed it. I use Spyder2Pro software for color control anyway.
 
Is our internal monitor VGA or DVI? What screen do you have for the internal? Mine is the standard 17" 1440 x 900. Does this happen with the high-end WUXGA screen?
 
I really want to get to the bottom of this. I think we may need to force ATI to get involved in the discussion some how.

3 Posts

September 6th, 2006 15:00

I installed the i8kfan, and set the treashholds to lower temperatures, also I made suggested changes in the Catalyst center for the external flat panel.  And, unfortunatelly, my external monitor (Planar) still flickers at 22 C CPU and 50 C GPU. I'm going to force fans to fast speed and test the monitors in this condtion. Thank you very much for your ideas and information!

61 Posts

September 7th, 2006 01:00

I'm familiar with the i8kfan software. I used it years ago with my old Dell Inspiron 8000 as a toy. Sure its fun to make the funs turn on and off. But I sure don't want to have to run them all the time. I wear hearing aids. The last thing I need is more fan noise. It's one of the reasons I moved on to a notebook in the first place.
 
This doesn't feel like a heat problem to me. More likely a design problem, firmware problem or driver problem. Or, an incompatibility between the card and the bus in this machine.
 
Incidently, I've noticed that during the repaint of the screen, that there is really large text against a white background, and that the text seems to vary. I think that it is momentarily rescaling the window that has the focus and then putting it back. Seems like an off-screen memory problem to me. Something to do with image caching.

30 Posts

September 7th, 2006 05:00

to add, when it flickers, I do experience the same scaling issue as specified by GlentT and I have been only running fans at slow without forcing them...

30 Posts

September 7th, 2006 05:00

Cooling a machine down is never a bad thing to do even if it's brand new... I've bought a several items from dell in the years and have never had hardware issues (4 laptops / 4 lcds / 2 main systems). I have been keeping an eye on things on my end.
 
The flicker still happens at temps of 22-25 deg cel on cpu and 45 deg cel gpu(ca 78cpu/115gpu deg farenh) which through the research I did seems to be good values to maintain.
 
The laptop is a 17" wuxga (1920x1440). The dell 20's both run at 1680x1050. I am inclined to say that it may be an ATI driver issue(maybe hardware). I have no issues if I run things on one lcd. I stick to the dvi out so I haven't done a test on just vga.
 
I have noticed that when the flicker starts... it begins on one external out and then moves to the other output screen. I'd say that it may happen once within a 8-12 hour period and after that, it could take another 8-12 hours for me to see it again... It now happens fairly quick... maybe the flicker issue happens within 1-4 minutes... with maybe one or three flickers within that period... to me, not bad enough to return the laptop... but it's because that is the only issue I am encountering and yes, I believe it to be more of an ATI issue than dell now...
 
About 75% of the time, I may run Flash/Pshop CS2/several web browsers/winamp/remote desktop/one of the two dev apps(visual studio or dreamweaver) all at the same time.
 
and for me, daaamn everything runs smooth... I really would rather investigate more on why the flicker than returning it for now since it's not annoying to me... more of a mosquito that flies in once in a while than a rat eating my cheese every minute...
 
I don't use the ATI control panel either... just driver.  
 
Somehow the idea of something needed to be "cleaned/reset" memory/driver wise comes to mind... and during that period is when flicker starts... as a dump of memory from the card ? Dunno... just thoughts due to the flicker starting on one lcd (vga out typically, but not always) then moving to the DVI out, and then not happening again for several, several hours...
 
It's definitely an interesting thing and it would be nice to get to the bottom of this...
 
 

61 Posts

September 7th, 2006 13:00

I have usage patterns that are similar to Maaximuus. Seems we do similar work. I find that my screens sometimes blink in quick sequence but more often independently. I will see one flash out of the corner of my eye while looking at the other. I would say that this happens on average twice per hour.

It seems to happen less often in my home office than at my client's site. This may lend some support to the heat theory, because at home my 9400 sits on a perforated steel monitor stand, where at the client's, it sits on an old HP docking station that has a rubber base and wraps around the front of the unit. I would have to say that it would run hotter at that location.

Since I seldom use the battery, I may try removing it and see if the heat reduction of no charging has any effect on the problem.

Does anyone have an open case number on this with Dell support?

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