WWII Researcher

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WWII Researcher

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October 1st, 2020 13:00

Windows 7 Pro Security Updates?

Hi Gang

I'm an older experienced Desktop user (with a new DELL Forum ID). I'm sure others have asked this question. Is it worth the effort to format an older Optiplex 790 Full Sized Desktop with a fresh install of Windows 7 Pro? Or have the required security updates been permanently discontinued? Reason I ask is that I have many older applications that install and run fine in using 'compatibility mode' within W7 Pro.

OR

Should I shop around for a newer faster Optiplex and make a switch to W10? I'm not sure these programs can still be installed and run within Windows 10 Pro?

Thank You

  • speedstep

    11 Legend

    46969 Posts

    3210

    1

    Posted October 1st, 2020 22:00

    Get a new hard drive and install 10 using the "I dont have a key option" once online you can use the 7 COA key to Activate 10.  You cant do this during install but you can after getting online.  All the Drivers for 790 are contained in a single CAB file.  You download the cab and move to my documents folder.  Then extract the cab contents using 7zip in that folder.  Any yellow ! in device manager are fixed by saying update driver from my computer instead of the internet.

    https://downloads.dell.com/FOLDER01834206M/1/790-win7-A08-34RKD.CAB

    https://www.7-zip.org/download.html

     

    Virtualization wont work because you require separate license to run 7 under 10. You do need a separate license, for Hyper V VM since those separate VMs are basically separate computers. Performance will be an issue with virtual machine.

     

    https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/2108-dual-boot-windows-10-windows-7-windows-8-a.html

    https://www.newegg.com/microsoft-windows-10-pro-64-bit-reinstall-recovery-disc-only-no-license-key-included/p/N82E16832350238

     

  • speedstep

    11 Legend

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    Posted October 2nd, 2020 12:00

    7010 cannot do secure boot because it supports booting 32 bit legacy XP.  Many older dells work fine with 10 via MBR 2TB maximum Legacy booting. MBR legacy is limited to 2TB. EXFAT/USB3 doesnt have the MBR limitations but it is never bootable.  This is a problem when trying to install windows with USB3 EXFAT flash drive.  USB2 devices up to 32 gigs fat32 are required. The reason for this is simple.  USB3 and EXFAT did not exist at the time of the design for the F12 legacy booting software.  This is also why it requires special WIN7 media to boot and install on systems with USB3 chipsets.

    https://www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/sln300564/dell-systems-with-the-intel-skylake-or-braswell-chipset-lack-usb-2-0-support-and-will-not-boot-to-dell-windows-7-media?lang=en

     

    https://www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/how13914/optiplex-7010-xp-driver-cab?lang=en

     

    7010 is from 2011 and runs legacy Class 1.1.0 UEFI

    which is legacy only no GPT

    A common misconception is that UEFI is a replacement for BIOS. In reality, both legacy motherboards and UEFI-based motherboards come with BIOS ROMs.  CSM is compatability support module for Legacy Booting and OS.

    ALL newer machines after Skylake are 64 bit only and WIN10 only.  Newer Dells cannot boot internal drives legacy mode EVER. UEFI mode requires a 64-bit operating system be installed (ex, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Windows 10 Home 64-bit, Ubuntu 16.04 SP1 LTS 64-bit). and Now specifically prevents booting 32 bit os of any kind.  Class 3 UEFI systems have CSM removed.

    https://www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/sln309720/newer-dell-systems-unable-to-boot-to-internal-boot-device-in-legacy-boot-mode?lang=en

     

     

    https://www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/how13354/optiplex-7010-windows-10-driver-pack?lang=en

     

    7020 is from 2012 and runs WIN8 Classs 2.3.1 UEFI

    https://www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/how13360/optiplex-7020-windows-10-driver-pack?lang=en

     

    7020 is fully supported for windows 10  Secure Boot UEFI

    Cab files for these models contain ALL the drivers for the system.

     

  • Philip_Yip

    11 Legend

    16052 Posts

    65915 Points

    3651

    2

    Posted October 2nd, 2020 16:00

    Secure Boot

    The OptiPlex 7010 is one of the systems that didn't have Secure Boot when first released but the latest UEFI BIOS Updates include Secure Boot. 

    UEFI BIOS Version A05

    Philip_Yip_0-1601679891144.png

    UEFI BIOS Version A21

    Philip_Yip_1-1601679904959.png

    There have been some Secure Boot vulnerabilities related to GRUB2 recently. Dell have updated a lot of the newer models to address the Security exploit but they classify the 7010 as a Legacy Model so it is unlikely to get a newer UEFI BIOS Update. Still its better to have Secure Boot Enabled on the Windows 10 Pro install even if it only gives partial security.

    Windows 7 to Windows 10 Activation Mechanisms

    You can copy the GatherOSState.exe from the sources folder of the Windows 10 Installation media to the old Windows 7 Desktop. If the Windows 7 install is genuine (it should be with a Dell Win 7 pro OEM License) and online you will get a GenuineTicket when launching GatherOSState.exe for first time product activation. The Genuine Ticket can be copied to the following location on an initial clean install of Windows 10 Pro:

    C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\ClipSVC\GenuineTicket

    This mimicks the activation mechanism for the upgrade install. You can alternatively use the key on the COA with Windows 10 Installation Media. Both Windows 7 to Windows 10 activation mechanisms still work.

    Windows 10 Pro Install

    If installing Windows 10 Pro on it, it is recommended to make sure the UEFI BIOS Update is updated to the latest version and use a UEFI Boot with Secure Boot. I would also swap out the mechanical HDD for a SSD.

    The Installation Media must be FAT32 formatted and setup to use the GPT Partition Scheme in order to pass Secure Boot (using a Botoable USB Utility like Rufus).

    Win 7 Pro

    Windows 7 Pro reached end of life in January and should now be classified as vulnerable and at risk. If you can get everything you need to run on Windows 10 there is no point in reinstalling Windows 7. If you have a legacy application that needs Windows 7 Pro then you are best to try and a create a Dell Windows 7 Pro January 2020 Media Refresh ISO with the OptiPlex 7010 Driver Cab slipstreamed in case updates get pulled from Microsoft or Dell at a later date. You can use the Dell Windows 7 Pro January 2016 ISO as a basis for this. 

    Virtualisation

    Personally I would not try to virtualise Windows 7 Pro on a Windows 10 Pro on such an old model as the performance will be poor.

     

  • speedstep

    11 Legend

    46969 Posts

    3847

    1

    Posted October 2nd, 2020 18:00

    The OEM system builder dvds work with ALL DELL Models from 2006 to now that are 64 bit Windows 8.1 or higher capable.  If your dell has dvd I suggest you also buy USB2 optical drive.  NOT USB3 USB2.

    I suggest this specific model.  Works F12 boot and install for All Dell Desktops and Laptops.

    https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-8x-external-usb-2-0-blu-ray-disc-double-layer-dvdrw-cd-rw-disc-rewriter-black/9243009.p?skuId=9243009

     

    SSD's work fine with all models that have SATA and AHCI setting in bios. Not supported does not mean not working in regards to Windows 10.

    All windows is going 64 bit on all models all vendors.

    Microsoft Discontinued the Refurbisher program so I recommend you GET A DISK NOW

    as they will become unavailable very soon.

    https://www.newegg.com/microsoft-windows-10-pro-64-bit-reinstall-recovery-disc-only-no-license-key-included/p/N82E16832350238

    This disk works on every dell I own including my 2006 optiplex GX620 as well as my more recent G7 7588 laptop.

    Older models you install using the "I dont have a key" option then use the Key on WIN7 HOME or PRO COA to activate.

    2012 and newer models will read the key from bios and not ask anything.

     

     

  • bradthetechnut

    9 Technologist

    9649 Posts

    40713 Points

    3805

    1

    Posted October 3rd, 2020 17:00

    When a product key is imbedded in BIOS, there's nothing to have to do to manually extract.  Just load and activate online.

    I had a look back on ebay and the DVD I bought had no product key.  Speedstep will/would also tell you to buy the $9.99 DVD on newegg, as he's told others.

    If buying one with a product key makes you feel safer, nothing wrong with that.  But I highly doubt you'll need it.

    So how's all that?

  • speedstep

    11 Legend

    46969 Posts

    3653

    0

    Posted October 3rd, 2020 17:00

    "The only question remaining is whether I'll need that OS to have a Product Key? Its my understanding (as in the past), if the old original Product Key is not visible on the casing of the machine anymore, (or since I'm not the original owner), then yes I'll need a Product Key to go along with the copy of the OS ...So I should look for a genuine copy of Windows 10 Pro OS with a Product Key"

    Systems with win7 home or pro/ultimate  COA Key/. You choose the I dont have a key option during install. You can use current 10 media aka version 2004 or OEM system builder DVD.  WIN8.0 and above machines do not have coa but rather the key is in the bios so it wont ask you it will just install and activate after getting online.

    You tell it you dont have a key.

    If this is not an option with your dvd it means its an older version aka 1511, 1607, 1703 etc.  In that case use a generic Key Below.

    1507 Threshold 1 July 29, 2015
    1511 Threshold 2 November Update
    1607 Redstone 1 Anniversary Update
    1703 Redstone 2 Creators Update
    1709 Redstone 3 Fall Creators Update
    1803 Redstone 4 April 2018 Update
    1809 Redstone 5 October 2018 Update
    1903 19H1 MAY 2019 Update
    1909 19H2 November 2019 Update
    2004 20H1 October 2020 Update

    https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10

     

    Generic keys (aka: "default keys") for Windows 10 from Microsoft will allow you to install a specific Windows 10 Edition you want, but will not activate it. Does not matter home or pro media they are the same now.

    The reason to use these DVD is that it works on ALL DELL models that 10 works on and doesnt require you to find USB2 fat32 flash drive 16 or 32 gigs and doesnt die over time aka detrap as flash drives do.

    https://www.officedepot.com/a/products/510177/SanDisk-Cruzer-Glide-USB-20-Flash/

    SDCZ60-032G-A46

    https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Cruzer-Glide-Flash-SDCZ60-032G-A46/dp/B007RB12YI

     

    If you do not have a working optical drive that understands DUAL Layer 8 gig DVD disks I recommend a USB2 optical drive that as a a bonus comes with DVD playback software.  DVD codecs are removed from windows 8 and up by default.  They want you to buy the $15 codec.

    https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-8x-external-usb-2-0-blu-ray-disc-double-layer-dvdrw-cd-rw-disc-rewriter-black/9243009.p?skuId=9243009

     

    UPDATE NOW with 7

    https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=799445

    Download and make your own media DUAL LAYER DVD or Flash Drive

    https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=691209

    Follow these steps to create installation media (USB flash drive or DVD) you can use to install a new copy of Windows 10, perform a clean installation, or reinstall Windows 10.

    Before you download the tool make sure you have:

    • An internet connection (internet service provider fees may apply).
    • Sufficient data storage available on a computer, USB or external drive for the download.
    • A blank USB flash drive with at least 8GB of space or blank DVD (and DVD burner) if you want to create media. We recommend using a blank USB or blank DVD, because any content on it will be deleted.
    • When burning a DVD from an ISO file, if you are told the disc image file is too large you will need to use Dual Layer (DL) DVD Media.

    OEM DVD

    https://www.newegg.com/microsoft-windows-10-pro-64-bit-reinstall-recovery-disc-only-no-license-key-included/p/N82E16832350238

    Windows 10 Edition Generic product key
    Windows 10 Home 37GNV-YCQVD-38XP9-T848R-FC2HD
    Windows 10 Home N 33CY4-NPKCC-V98JP-42G8W-VH636
    Windows 10 Pro NF6HC-QH89W-F8WYV-WWXV4-WFG6P
    Windows 10 Pro N NH7W7-BMC3R-4W9XT-94B6D-TCQG3
    Windows 10 SL NTRHT-XTHTG-GBWCG-4MTMP-HH64C
    Windows 10 CHN SL 7B6NC-V3438-TRQG7-8TCCX-H6DDY
  • speedstep

    11 Legend

    46969 Posts

    3704

    0

    Posted October 3rd, 2020 18:00

    The final thing that many either gloss over or worse is that MBR Legacy Booting is NO LONGER ALLOWED on Internal Media.  Its completely disingenous to tell someone they can run ANY older INT13  MSDOS/WIN9X/2000/XP/VISTA/7 machine on newer hardware.  You might get away with a VM but you need additional licence that nobody can sell you. Thats why they dont have 32 bit windows anything anymore because they do not want the NTVDM API to run so you CANNOT RUN older 32 bit software within 64 bit windows 10. NTVDM, or the NT Virtual DOS Machine, is a system component introduced in 1993 for all IA-32 editions of the Windows NT family (not included with 64-bit versions of the OS). This component allows the execution of 16-bit Windows applications on 32-bit Windows operating systems, as well as the execution of both 16-bit and 32-bit DOS applications. The Windows NT 32-bit user-mode executable that is the basis for a single DOS (or Windows 3.x) environment is called ntvdm.exe.

    https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/ntvdm-and-16-bit-app-support

     

    64 BIT GPT UEFI  secure boot on or off is the ONLY booting option.


    Nvidia /ATI/INTEL/ Qualcomm is Done Releasing Drivers 32-Bit Operating Systems
    There will be no windows XP/VISTA/7/8.0 drivers for newer cards aka TURING for NVIDIA and the RX Series for ATI etc. Older Radeon HD series up to 8000 series are legacy now

    https://www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/sln309720/newer-dell-systems-unable-to-boot-to-internal-boot-device-in-legacy-boot-mode?lang=en

     

     

  • speedstep

    11 Legend

    46969 Posts

    3663

    0

    Posted October 4th, 2020 02:00

    Its been pointed out (and researched), a Bootable Disc version of W10 Pro is likely to be rejected. Whoever pointed this out is dead wrong.


    The above statement is entirely false.

    8 and 10 need NX, LAHF SAHF CMPXG 168 and 10 need NX, LAHF SAHF CMPXG 16

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

     

      OEM system builder HOME or PRO DVD will install on any machine that meets 64 bit windows 10 installation requirements.

    Works on Dells as old as 2006 Optiplex GX620 as well as on the latest model Dell.  USB2 optical drive is required or SATA DVD that works with DUAL Layer DVDs because latest windows is over 5 gigs. This specific model is recommended for windows 7 or 8 or 10

    https://www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/sln300564/dell-systems-with-the-intel-skylake-or-braswell-chipset-lack-usb-2-0-support-and-will-not-boot-to-dell-windows-7-media?lang=en

     

    https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-8x-external-usb-2-0-blu-ray-disc-double-layer-dvdrw-cd-rw-disc-rewriter-black/9243009.p?skuId=9243009

     

    https://www.newegg.com/microsoft-windows-10-pro-64-bit-reinstall-recovery-disc-only-no-license-key-included/p/N82E16832350238

    Does not matter if you have the Blue Home or Purple PRO DVD,

    All install media is now the same meaning it will ask what version to install with the I dont have a key option.

    Generic keys can be used to INSTALL but not to activate.  Depends also on the country you are in.  USA DVD wont work in Korea etc.

    Windows 10 Edition Generic product key
    Windows 10 Home 37GNV-YCQVD-38XP9-T848R-FC2HD
    Windows 10 Home N 33CY4-NPKCC-V98JP-42G8W-VH636
    Windows 10 Pro NF6HC-QH89W-F8WYV-WWXV4-WFG6P
    Windows 10 Pro N NH7W7-BMC3R-4W9XT-94B6D-TCQG3
    Windows 10 SL NTRHT-XTHTG-GBWCG-4MTMP-HH64C
    Windows 10 CHN SL 7B6NC-V3438-TRQG7-8TCCX-H6DDY

     

     

  • speedstep

    11 Legend

    46969 Posts

    3654

    0

    Posted October 4th, 2020 04:00

    If you can read your WIN7 COA KEY then you can choose the one WITHOUT KEY.

    There is no reason to pay for 10 if you dont have to.

    Key in bios means there is no COA and it wont ask you for one.

    It will just install and activate once online automatically.

    This is true for all WIN8 or Win10 machines like 3020 7020 9020

    The 7020 and 9020 are fine but the 3020 is crippled and wont do AHCI so I do not recommend buying any of the 3 series aka 390 790 990

    3010 7010 9010  3020 7020 9020.

     

     

  • bradthetechnut

    9 Technologist

    9649 Posts

    40713 Points

    3237

    1

    Posted October 4th, 2020 13:00

    Hi @WWII Researcher,

    I can't answer all your questions, but you had many of those were directed to speedstep anyway.

    Summary:  Install using DVD.  My DVD drives are dual-layer.  Speedstep or another will have to answer if it's required.

    By the way, Plextor dual-layer drives from newegg are packaged much better than from Amazon.  https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=Plextor+DVD+drive  Plextor's DL drives will have white print on the front with "DL" under "RW"  I like their quality better than LG: which one 1-2 yrs. old kicked the bucket on me.

    20201004_151740~2.jpg

    Capture+_2020-10-04-15-19-19.png

    Format SSD to NTFS and use GPT partition.  This supercedes what I said earlier about using MBR.

    Upon loading, you'll be prompted for anything you need.  You could buy the DVD with product key just in case as a fail safe or use the one from Win7 from your 790.  Those are activation keys.  If no activation key is needed, you won't be prompted for one.  You won't find where a product key is imbedded in BIOS as it can't be changed.

    Loading might not be exactly the same on a 7020 as a 755, but I still think it should be pretty simple.  Little to nothing to worry about.  It loads faster than any XP PC I loaded.

    Summary isn't meant to "gloss" over anything, offend anyone, nor receive any insults or offenses back.  There's Dell Community's Code of Conduct. - Just a reminder.