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October 1st, 2020 13:00
Windows 7 Pro Security Updates?
Hi Gang
I'm an older experienced Desktop user (with a new DELL Forum ID). I'm sure others have asked this question. Is it worth the effort to format an older Optiplex 790 Full Sized Desktop with a fresh install of Windows 7 Pro? Or have the required security updates been permanently discontinued? Reason I ask is that I have many older applications that install and run fine in using 'compatibility mode' within W7 Pro.
OR
Should I shop around for a newer faster Optiplex and make a switch to W10? I'm not sure these programs can still be installed and run within Windows 10 Pro?
Thank You
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speedstep
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October 1st, 2020 22:00
Get a new hard drive and install 10 using the "I dont have a key option" once online you can use the 7 COA key to Activate 10. You cant do this during install but you can after getting online. All the Drivers for 790 are contained in a single CAB file. You download the cab and move to my documents folder. Then extract the cab contents using 7zip in that folder. Any yellow ! in device manager are fixed by saying update driver from my computer instead of the internet.
https://downloads.dell.com/FOLDER01834206M/1/790-win7-A08-34RKD.CAB
https://www.7-zip.org/download.html
Virtualization wont work because you require separate license to run 7 under 10. You do need a separate license, for Hyper V VM since those separate VMs are basically separate computers. Performance will be an issue with virtual machine.
https://www.tenforums.com/tutorials/2108-dual-boot-windows-10-windows-7-windows-8-a.html
https://www.newegg.com/microsoft-windows-10-pro-64-bit-reinstall-recovery-disc-only-no-license-key-included/p/N82E16832350238
speedstep
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October 2nd, 2020 12:00
7010 cannot do secure boot because it supports booting 32 bit legacy XP. Many older dells work fine with 10 via MBR 2TB maximum Legacy booting. MBR legacy is limited to 2TB. EXFAT/USB3 doesnt have the MBR limitations but it is never bootable. This is a problem when trying to install windows with USB3 EXFAT flash drive. USB2 devices up to 32 gigs fat32 are required. The reason for this is simple. USB3 and EXFAT did not exist at the time of the design for the F12 legacy booting software. This is also why it requires special WIN7 media to boot and install on systems with USB3 chipsets.
https://www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/sln300564/dell-systems-with-the-intel-skylake-or-braswell-chipset-lack-usb-2-0-support-and-will-not-boot-to-dell-windows-7-media?lang=en
https://www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/how13914/optiplex-7010-xp-driver-cab?lang=en
7010 is from 2011 and runs legacy Class 1.1.0 UEFI
which is legacy only no GPT
A common misconception is that UEFI is a replacement for BIOS. In reality, both legacy motherboards and UEFI-based motherboards come with BIOS ROMs. CSM is compatability support module for Legacy Booting and OS.
ALL newer machines after Skylake are 64 bit only and WIN10 only. Newer Dells cannot boot internal drives legacy mode EVER. UEFI mode requires a 64-bit operating system be installed (ex, Windows 10 Pro 64-bit, Windows 10 Home 64-bit, Ubuntu 16.04 SP1 LTS 64-bit). and Now specifically prevents booting 32 bit os of any kind. Class 3 UEFI systems have CSM removed.
https://www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/sln309720/newer-dell-systems-unable-to-boot-to-internal-boot-device-in-legacy-boot-mode?lang=en
https://www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/how13354/optiplex-7010-windows-10-driver-pack?lang=en
7020 is from 2012 and runs WIN8 Classs 2.3.1 UEFI
https://www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/how13360/optiplex-7020-windows-10-driver-pack?lang=en
7020 is fully supported for windows 10 Secure Boot UEFI
Cab files for these models contain ALL the drivers for the system.
Philip_Yip
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October 2nd, 2020 16:00
Secure Boot
The OptiPlex 7010 is one of the systems that didn't have Secure Boot when first released but the latest UEFI BIOS Updates include Secure Boot.
UEFI BIOS Version A05
UEFI BIOS Version A21
There have been some Secure Boot vulnerabilities related to GRUB2 recently. Dell have updated a lot of the newer models to address the Security exploit but they classify the 7010 as a Legacy Model so it is unlikely to get a newer UEFI BIOS Update. Still its better to have Secure Boot Enabled on the Windows 10 Pro install even if it only gives partial security.
Windows 7 to Windows 10 Activation Mechanisms
You can copy the GatherOSState.exe from the sources folder of the Windows 10 Installation media to the old Windows 7 Desktop. If the Windows 7 install is genuine (it should be with a Dell Win 7 pro OEM License) and online you will get a GenuineTicket when launching GatherOSState.exe for first time product activation. The Genuine Ticket can be copied to the following location on an initial clean install of Windows 10 Pro:
C:\ProgramData\Microsoft\Windows\ClipSVC\GenuineTicket
This mimicks the activation mechanism for the upgrade install. You can alternatively use the key on the COA with Windows 10 Installation Media. Both Windows 7 to Windows 10 activation mechanisms still work.
Windows 10 Pro Install
If installing Windows 10 Pro on it, it is recommended to make sure the UEFI BIOS Update is updated to the latest version and use a UEFI Boot with Secure Boot. I would also swap out the mechanical HDD for a SSD.
The Installation Media must be FAT32 formatted and setup to use the GPT Partition Scheme in order to pass Secure Boot (using a Botoable USB Utility like Rufus).
Win 7 Pro
Windows 7 Pro reached end of life in January and should now be classified as vulnerable and at risk. If you can get everything you need to run on Windows 10 there is no point in reinstalling Windows 7. If you have a legacy application that needs Windows 7 Pro then you are best to try and a create a Dell Windows 7 Pro January 2020 Media Refresh ISO with the OptiPlex 7010 Driver Cab slipstreamed in case updates get pulled from Microsoft or Dell at a later date. You can use the Dell Windows 7 Pro January 2016 ISO as a basis for this.
Virtualisation
Personally I would not try to virtualise Windows 7 Pro on a Windows 10 Pro on such an old model as the performance will be poor.
speedstep
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October 2nd, 2020 18:00
The OEM system builder dvds work with ALL DELL Models from 2006 to now that are 64 bit Windows 8.1 or higher capable. If your dell has dvd I suggest you also buy USB2 optical drive. NOT USB3 USB2.
I suggest this specific model. Works F12 boot and install for All Dell Desktops and Laptops.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-8x-external-usb-2-0-blu-ray-disc-double-layer-dvdrw-cd-rw-disc-rewriter-black/9243009.p?skuId=9243009
SSD's work fine with all models that have SATA and AHCI setting in bios. Not supported does not mean not working in regards to Windows 10.
All windows is going 64 bit on all models all vendors.
Microsoft Discontinued the Refurbisher program so I recommend you GET A DISK NOW
as they will become unavailable very soon.
https://www.newegg.com/microsoft-windows-10-pro-64-bit-reinstall-recovery-disc-only-no-license-key-included/p/N82E16832350238
This disk works on every dell I own including my 2006 optiplex GX620 as well as my more recent G7 7588 laptop.
Older models you install using the "I dont have a key" option then use the Key on WIN7 HOME or PRO COA to activate.
2012 and newer models will read the key from bios and not ask anything.
bradthetechnut
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October 3rd, 2020 17:00
When a product key is imbedded in BIOS, there's nothing to have to do to manually extract. Just load and activate online.
I had a look back on ebay and the DVD I bought had no product key. Speedstep will/would also tell you to buy the $9.99 DVD on newegg, as he's told others.
If buying one with a product key makes you feel safer, nothing wrong with that. But I highly doubt you'll need it.
So how's all that?
speedstep
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October 3rd, 2020 17:00
"The only question remaining is whether I'll need that OS to have a Product Key? Its my understanding (as in the past), if the old original Product Key is not visible on the casing of the machine anymore, (or since I'm not the original owner), then yes I'll need a Product Key to go along with the copy of the OS ...So I should look for a genuine copy of Windows 10 Pro OS with a Product Key"
Systems with win7 home or pro/ultimate COA Key/. You choose the I dont have a key option during install. You can use current 10 media aka version 2004 or OEM system builder DVD. WIN8.0 and above machines do not have coa but rather the key is in the bios so it wont ask you it will just install and activate after getting online.
You tell it you dont have a key.
If this is not an option with your dvd it means its an older version aka 1511, 1607, 1703 etc. In that case use a generic Key Below.
1507 Threshold 1 July 29, 2015
1511 Threshold 2 November Update
1607 Redstone 1 Anniversary Update
1703 Redstone 2 Creators Update
1709 Redstone 3 Fall Creators Update
1803 Redstone 4 April 2018 Update
1809 Redstone 5 October 2018 Update
1903 19H1 MAY 2019 Update
1909 19H2 November 2019 Update
2004 20H1 October 2020 Update
https://www.microsoft.com/en-us/software-download/windows10
Generic keys (aka: "default keys") for Windows 10 from Microsoft will allow you to install a specific Windows 10 Edition you want, but will not activate it. Does not matter home or pro media they are the same now.
The reason to use these DVD is that it works on ALL DELL models that 10 works on and doesnt require you to find USB2 fat32 flash drive 16 or 32 gigs and doesnt die over time aka detrap as flash drives do.
https://www.officedepot.com/a/products/510177/SanDisk-Cruzer-Glide-USB-20-Flash/
SDCZ60-032G-A46
https://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-Cruzer-Glide-Flash-SDCZ60-032G-A46/dp/B007RB12YI
If you do not have a working optical drive that understands DUAL Layer 8 gig DVD disks I recommend a USB2 optical drive that as a a bonus comes with DVD playback software. DVD codecs are removed from windows 8 and up by default. They want you to buy the $15 codec.
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-8x-external-usb-2-0-blu-ray-disc-double-layer-dvdrw-cd-rw-disc-rewriter-black/9243009.p?skuId=9243009
UPDATE NOW with 7
https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkID=799445
Download and make your own media DUAL LAYER DVD or Flash Drive
https://go.microsoft.com/fwlink/?LinkId=691209
Follow these steps to create installation media (USB flash drive or DVD) you can use to install a new copy of Windows 10, perform a clean installation, or reinstall Windows 10.
Before you download the tool make sure you have:
OEM DVD
https://www.newegg.com/microsoft-windows-10-pro-64-bit-reinstall-recovery-disc-only-no-license-key-included/p/N82E16832350238speedstep
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October 3rd, 2020 18:00
The final thing that many either gloss over or worse is that MBR Legacy Booting is NO LONGER ALLOWED on Internal Media. Its completely disingenous to tell someone they can run ANY older INT13 MSDOS/WIN9X/2000/XP/VISTA/7 machine on newer hardware. You might get away with a VM but you need additional licence that nobody can sell you. Thats why they dont have 32 bit windows anything anymore because they do not want the NTVDM API to run so you CANNOT RUN older 32 bit software within 64 bit windows 10. NTVDM, or the NT Virtual DOS Machine, is a system component introduced in 1993 for all IA-32 editions of the Windows NT family (not included with 64-bit versions of the OS). This component allows the execution of 16-bit Windows applications on 32-bit Windows operating systems, as well as the execution of both 16-bit and 32-bit DOS applications. The Windows NT 32-bit user-mode executable that is the basis for a single DOS (or Windows 3.x) environment is called ntvdm.exe.
https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/compatibility/ntvdm-and-16-bit-app-support
64 BIT GPT UEFI secure boot on or off is the ONLY booting option.
Nvidia /ATI/INTEL/ Qualcomm is Done Releasing Drivers 32-Bit Operating Systems
There will be no windows XP/VISTA/7/8.0 drivers for newer cards aka TURING for NVIDIA and the RX Series for ATI etc. Older Radeon HD series up to 8000 series are legacy now
https://www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/sln309720/newer-dell-systems-unable-to-boot-to-internal-boot-device-in-legacy-boot-mode?lang=en
speedstep
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October 4th, 2020 02:00
Its been pointed out (and researched), a Bootable Disc version of W10 Pro is likely to be rejected. Whoever pointed this out is dead wrong.
The above statement is entirely false.
OEM system builder HOME or PRO DVD will install on any machine that meets 64 bit windows 10 installation requirements.
Works on Dells as old as 2006 Optiplex GX620 as well as on the latest model Dell. USB2 optical drive is required or SATA DVD that works with DUAL Layer DVDs because latest windows is over 5 gigs. This specific model is recommended for windows 7 or 8 or 10
https://www.dell.com/support/article/en-us/sln300564/dell-systems-with-the-intel-skylake-or-braswell-chipset-lack-usb-2-0-support-and-will-not-boot-to-dell-windows-7-media?lang=en
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-8x-external-usb-2-0-blu-ray-disc-double-layer-dvdrw-cd-rw-disc-rewriter-black/9243009.p?skuId=9243009
https://www.newegg.com/microsoft-windows-10-pro-64-bit-reinstall-recovery-disc-only-no-license-key-included/p/N82E16832350238
Does not matter if you have the Blue Home or Purple PRO DVD,
All install media is now the same meaning it will ask what version to install with the I dont have a key option.
Generic keys can be used to INSTALL but not to activate. Depends also on the country you are in. USA DVD wont work in Korea etc.
speedstep
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October 4th, 2020 04:00
If you can read your WIN7 COA KEY then you can choose the one WITHOUT KEY.
There is no reason to pay for 10 if you dont have to.
Key in bios means there is no COA and it wont ask you for one.
It will just install and activate once online automatically.
This is true for all WIN8 or Win10 machines like 3020 7020 9020
The 7020 and 9020 are fine but the 3020 is crippled and wont do AHCI so I do not recommend buying any of the 3 series aka 390 790 990
3010 7010 9010 3020 7020 9020.
bradthetechnut
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October 4th, 2020 13:00
Hi @WWII Researcher,
I can't answer all your questions, but you had many of those were directed to speedstep anyway.
Summary: Install using DVD. My DVD drives are dual-layer. Speedstep or another will have to answer if it's required.
By the way, Plextor dual-layer drives from newegg are packaged much better than from Amazon. https://www.newegg.com/p/pl?d=Plextor+DVD+drive Plextor's DL drives will have white print on the front with "DL" under "RW" I like their quality better than LG: which one 1-2 yrs. old kicked the bucket on me.
Format SSD to NTFS and use GPT partition. This supercedes what I said earlier about using MBR.
Upon loading, you'll be prompted for anything you need. You could buy the DVD with product key just in case as a fail safe or use the one from Win7 from your 790. Those are activation keys. If no activation key is needed, you won't be prompted for one. You won't find where a product key is imbedded in BIOS as it can't be changed.
Loading might not be exactly the same on a 7020 as a 755, but I still think it should be pretty simple. Little to nothing to worry about. It loads faster than any XP PC I loaded.
Summary isn't meant to "gloss" over anything, offend anyone, nor receive any insults or offenses back. There's Dell Community's Code of Conduct. - Just a reminder.
speedstep
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October 4th, 2020 13:00
"nobody in this thread said load a 7020, or any Optiplex in that generation, with Win XP/7 & etc."
Posts don't have to get complicated beyond belief .
7010 models can run XP
7020 models can run WIN7 with secure boot OFF legacy CSM ON.
Posts are not complicated when they stick to the facts.
If you choose to not like the facts thats on you.
Recommended USB2 Optical Drive that works with ALL Dell models is BP50NB40 from samsung Lucky Goldstar. The cost of the drive WITH SOFTWARE is the same as buying Cyberlogic Power DVD by itself.
https://shop.cyberlink.com/c/shop?curr=USD&cntr=&ml=EN&LOCALE=en_US&OFFER_ID=0112WD082401
https://www.bestbuy.com/site/lg-8x-external-usb-2-0-blu-ray-disc-double-layer-dvdrw-cd-rw-disc-rewriter-black/9243009.p?skuId=9243009
This disk has the added bonus that it has Cyberlogic Power DVD and burning software that was removed from WIN8 and WIN10.
Windows 7 keys are on COA stickers.
See the following examples of labels to look for.
Color-Shifting Ink
The color shift on the label is designed to change from one color to another when viewed from different angles, making it easy to determine if it is genuine.
Windows : magenta to green
Windows Pro: blue to purple
Windows RT: turquoise to purple
Genuine Microsoft Labels for 8 or 10 aka key in bios.
Windows 8 and 10 keys are encrypted stored in the Bios installed at the factory. There are no more COA Stickers due to piracy. (OEM System Builder Versions Do Still have COA Stickers)
Windows 8 or 10 now comes with a Genuine Microsoft Label there are NO MORE Certificate of Authenticity (COA) Labels.
fireberd
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October 1st, 2020 15:00
See THIS LINK about running a Win 7 Virtualization mode within Win 10. Something to consider and probably better than Win 7 since its end of life.
There are also XP Virtualization options, too.
Then there are many older OS programs that run OK in Win 10 in compatibility mode.
WWII Researcher
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October 1st, 2020 16:00
Hi There
Always nice to hear from you.
You're one of the most courteous and knowledgeable responders here on Dell.
To recap:
So then you think W10 would be a more stable platform - and by using either compatibility mode or Virtualization mode, its a good bet these old programs would still work? And no need for security updates relating to W7 because I'd be using W10? Correct?
Thank You
bradthetechnut
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October 1st, 2020 18:00
I'm not as familiar with compatibility or Virtualization mode, so I'm leaving that to fireberd.
If some of your older programs only work with 32-bit OS, they won't work with 64-bit OS, including Win10. I don't know if you've been running Win7 32-bit?
If you wanted to keep running 32-bit Win7, you'd need your own security software. A disadvantage to that is you wouldn't be able to download drivers from the Dell site anymore. I don't think BIOS can be updated anymore either with Win7.
I keep a backup PC with Win7 32-bit to run some of my older software. The PC is offline.
So that's one idea. Have one PC with Win10 and one with Win7.
If your software all works with 64-bit OS, Win10 is the best bet. You still get the security updates. Dell Support Assist can scan your PC for any needed drivers & etc.
Your 790 MT can run Win10 just fine too.
bradthetechnut
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October 1st, 2020 21:00
Haha with "Tungsten." I have no idea where those in charge of Dell Community gets those names from.
It just so happens my backup PC is a 790 DT.
Whether you notice the difference between a dual core I3-2120 and a quad core I7, something like a I7-4770 in a 7020 depends on the load. For everyday things like Word & Excel, you probably won't notice the difference. If you have software that puts a CPU under a load, chances are you'll notice the difference. If you run Flight Simulator, minimum is an I5-4660, and quite the GPU card.
Depending on how important boot times are to you, my 7010 with an I7-3770 boots 15 sec. faster (25 sec. vs. 40 sec.) than the 790. (Not bragging by the way, SSD's are faster.)
An SSD and an increase in RAM can make a more of a noticeable in overall speed. I didn't get around to putting an SSD in my 7010 yet. But I had one in my previous 755 and it just flew.
According to the Optiplex 7020 Spec Sheet, the 7020 came with either Win7 or 8.
This might also help with your older software: https://www.google.com/search?q=download+compatibility+mode+windows+10&oq=download+compatibility+&aqs=chrome.3.69i57j0l4.24540j1j4&client=ms-android-americamovil-us-revc&sourceid=chrome-mobile&ie=UTF-8