XPS 8700 - OS and Software Compatibility

Question

I have had a Dell XPS 8700 since 2016, I can say I’m a proud owner, as I think it is a great machine, and it is still running and delivering good performance in comparison to newer systems, DELL really did a good job on this one. I know about the infamous Pcie 1x, and so on, but beyond that 8700 is a wonderful machine.

Mine lately has developed some issues (It resets by itself with Windows event 41, and no minidump, or memory dump at all). I do not think these issues are hardware issues. I have tested RAM, Processor, etc. multiple times without finding anything wrong (I have run the BIOS tests, including the extended version, 3 times, all OK). I think the issues are compatibility issues from the BIOS-UEFI, Windows 10, and hardware components and windows drivers (I decided NOT to use the DELL drivers, as it seems the ones included with Win 10, or Intel Website are far more stable on this days), it seems if you have Bluetooth devices connected it gets worse (I have a Logitech mouse).

Off course I can understand Dell has a lot of newer systems to maintain and need to sell newer systems. I would respectfully ask for a new BIOS revision A15 to tackle some of these incompatibilities, especially with Windows 10 power management, and newer video cards, as the Nvidia GTX 16 family.

Lately my machine resets sporadically sometimes 4 times on a day (Mostly during gaming, as it seems not to happen on normal office and surfing). I suspect the Intel 7260 card, and a new video card (Nvidia 1650 Super) are the culprits, I selected the 1650S because of it lower TDP, as the 8700 still have the default PSU (Its always connected to a UPS), I think the video card is not defective but it is not 100% compatible?. I have never had temperature issues, I live on a city where most of the year you have chill and mild temperatures, and my case do not report high temperatures, CPU cores are between 37 and 55 (Celsius), most of the time on late 40s, GPU on late 30s but usually not reaching late 50s while gaming.

I’m using the latest version of Windows 10 (2004 – 19041.450), I ended using the first version of Nvidia Driver I could found for this card (441.20), as I think is the most stable. (The card is not overclocked, neither the system, 4790 processor (Without a K) is not overclockable. I have been using a RAID 0 of 4 CRUCIAL MX-500 480GB each with no issues whatsoever as my main storage.

These resets are driving me crazy; I had a RX 470 before the 1650S, and remember having similar issues when installed it, ended up disabling Bluetooth and using only USB mouse and Keyboard to maintain the system stable.

Currently I have no money to afford buying a new system with the same or similar performance to this one. It has 32 GB in RAM, they have never been removed and work solid since 2016.

Please advise or share your experiences thinking I must solve it with what I got, investing 100 or 150 bucks but no more than that.

Thinking on (Please advise):

Replace PSU (My PSU seems to be ok, is the original one 460w)
Get rid of Intel 7260 and replace Bluetooth and Wi-Fi with another piece of hardware. (I do not trust 7260, as I’ve seen a lot of different issues on the web with this card.
Get rid of Norton Security and use Defender and Windows Firewall
Go back to RX-470 (Was more stable, but I didn’t have Bluetooth devices when using it, so maybe it’s just an impression)

I’m not a heavy gamer, and I only play from time to time (Old games, and racing games, like forza 4, but I need a solid machine for photo and video edition, and office stuff, that works stable and just do not reset by itself.

aminocell · Accepted Answer

Hi Ron, thanks for you reply, but everithing was OK with hardaware. The problem is now solved in two steps:

1st. Disable link state power management for pcie in all power plans. (After research a lot of people having the same problem and with both cards NVIDIA and AMD)

2nd. In NVIDIA Control Panel, on 3d Settings, set energy control to "Adaptive",

This solved the problem, but honestly quite difficult to figure it out, and researching, found a lot of people thinking they had a hardware problem, upgrading PSUs, running RAM checks and so on. There is no official info about this on DELL, MICROSOFT or NVIDIA websites, most of it only on forums. It seems to be related to power management, but do not know who is to blame, MICROSOFT, DELL, or NVIDIA, I would say NVIDIA.

Thanks, Regards

aminocell · Accepted Answer

Thanks a lot SpeedStep add this too... disable link state power management pci express

speedstep · Accepted Answer

The explanation is not intuitive. ADAPTIVE 3D

TonyD53 · Answer

I have a 6 year old 8700 and it still runs fine.  I had tried to install an 1650 super and had the reset/reboot problems as well.  I went back to the original GPU and the system runs fine again.  I returned the 1650.   I read somewhere on this board that this new GPU needs to have performance set to high in system settings.  You might try to search for this post to get additional information.   I had discovered this tip after I sent the board back so I did not have an opportunity to try it out.

RoHe · Answer

@aminocell - Dell releases its own drivers because OEM hardware isn't always identical to retail hardware, even though it may appear to be the same. So that could be part of your problem, in addition to the GPU settings that @TonyD53 mentioned.

It's also possible the new GPU is producing more heat than the old card, so you should make sure all fans are clean and turn freely, and blow out all the dust from motherboard, heat sink, case vents, etc with canned air.

You could install something like Speccy (free) to monitor CPU, GPU and HDD temps on an active basis by setting Speccy to minimize to an icon in the notification area of the taskbar. That way you can keep an eye on temps and see if they correlate with the crashes.

And given the age of this PC (no insult intended), you may also need to dismount the heat sink from top of CPU, gently clean both surfaces and apply a thin, fresh coat of good quality thermal paste. Then reattach the heat sink. Check the Service Manual for info about removing the heat sink. And lots of youtubes if you need more info about replacing thermal paste.

aminocell · Answer

https://forums.tomshardware.com/threads/random-restarts-with-nvidia-gtx-1650.3585231/

aminocell · Answer

Hi Tony.

Yes I tried, and it works, you can set the card to highgest performance on 3d settings on NVIDIA control panel, the problem is, it will stay that way (Always at High speed, getting more temp, and not saving energy) There is a third option there "Adaptive". After verifying that it worked stable on higest performance, I switched to "Adaptive" and this one also keeps the card stable, but not always at highest performance. So Adaptive was better for me, as I dont want the card always running at high performance. Anyway you have to disable link state power management for pcie on every power plan (If you switch the power plan to save energy, you may forget about the link state power management, and inmmediately you start getting the resets.). Thats all, the card works justs fine and after changing these values, you can overclocked with FireStorm (Mine is a Zotac) without a problem, it just runs stable. Sorry to learn you returned your card, I was algo going to do the same at some point.

RoHe · Answer

Can't blame Dell for this one. They don't support after-market (retail) video cards. They only support the OEM cards they sell...

Probably NVidia is at fault because they should tell you what changes their cards need, and partially Microsoft because they set all the default Windows power options to save the most energy, and we pay the consequences...

aminocell · Answer

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/windows/client-management/troubleshoot-event-id-41-restart

The official Microsoft about event ID 41, always point to a hardware issue... Well... it is not!, and people opening their cases, switching RAM modules, changing their PSUs, getting in risk of damaging other system components (Most people dont even use an anti static band..)

It will be nice to warn xps 8700 owners about this somehow. And Im sure it happens on other hardware, as I saw similar issues with other configurations.

aminocell · Answer

I have to add .. there is no need for the default maximum performance plan. I created a new one for example from the maximum performance one, and set the processor minimum to 25 and maximum to 100. In this way you give the processor the capability of saving energy. Anyway, in my experience is only the link state power management what matters.

aminocell · Answer

After Testing, it seems there is no need to change Windows power plans, no need for Disable link state power management.

Only changing the power management mode in NVIDIA Control panel to "Adaptive" seems solves the issue.

So no Dell or Microsoft issue.. Thanks DELL!

aminocell · Answer

Plase Dell we need Bios A15, to fix this compatibility issue!!.

aminocell · Answer

Well... further testing, confirms Link State Powermanagement must be disabled!. So the 2 solutions discussed are needed. Also NVIDIA confirms this is a DELL Issue. So the card is not 100% compatible with this system, and probably other similar cards are also not. They will work if you know this troubleshooting, otherwise it would be painfull for you.

Please Dell can you fixit? With a new BIOS version. We need BIOS A15.

DELL-Chris M · Answer

Note, the June 2013 XPS 8700 is not on the Windows 10 1803/1809/1903/1909/2004 validated list. Windows 10 1709 was the last version that we officially tested and validated on the XPS 8700.

"Dell we need Bios A15, to fix this compatibility issue."

I do not see us spending the time and resources to create/test/validate a BIOS for 2019 and later video cards for this XPS 8700. By Dell standards, the XPS 8700 end of life was June 2016, 3 years from its release date. From that point on, all we did was provide driver updates to fix issues with the validated OEM hardware. And of course the overexaggerated Intel SA stuff. The last BIOS that we released that was not Intel SA was five years ago July 2015.

So your workaround is the only way to go.

aminocell · Answer

Thanks

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XPS 8700 - OS and Software Compatibility

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