The Total Satisfaction Policy includes the hard drive, which may be classified as either hardware, parts or even accessories:
"New Hardware Products and Accessories: All new hardware, accessories, parts, and unopened software still in its sealed package, excluding the products listed below, may be returned within thirty days from the date on the packing slip or invoice. To return applications software or an operating system that has been installed by Dell, you must return the entire computer. A different return policy applies to nondefective products purchased through Dell's Software and Peripherals division by customers of our Small and Medium Business divisions. Those products may be returned within thirty days from the date on the packing slip or invoice, but a fifteen percent (15%) restocking fee will be deducted from any refund or credit. The "Total Satisfaction" Return Policy and Software and Peripherals division return policy are not available for Dell/EMC storage products, EMC-branded products or enterprise software.
IAfter I was told that the 5150 no longer comes equipped with 5400 RPM hard drives, technical support said sales was wrong. So I am even more confused as a consumer, and still do not know what kind of hard drive will be coming with the machine.
More importantly, the fact that the machine was advertised as a 5400 RPM hard drive was a major factor in prompting me to order this machine.
So either Dell will lose $1,600.00, or $110.00. From a business perspective as well, Dell can't refuse.
listen, i wish you the best, i'd be happy for you if they took the drive back and sent you a 7200 rpm, really.
but, first you said: " Were you able to get a full refund on the hard drive because you believed that the hard drive was 5,400 RPM when you purchased it (based upon Dell's advertisements)? I'd like to do that too, but I inquired about the website error re: 4,200 RPM vs. 5,400 RPM on the 5150 with the sales rep. and discovered that 5150 Inspirons are no longer equipped with 5,400 RPM hard drives. So I really can't play dumb here. "
now you say: " After I was told that the 5150 no longer comes equipped with 5400 RPM hard drives, technical support said sales was wrong. So I am even more confused as a consumer, and still do not know what kind of hard drive will be coming with the machine. "
sales rep told you beforehand and you can't play dumb? as advertised? and later you remembered the call to the tech?
the answer is, 4200 is advertised and promised. if you get a 5400, bless you. if you get a 4200 and johnny jones gets a 5400 and then gets hit by a truck, then you still got what was advertised.
what kwok did was really different. he prepared completely up front.
regarding the total satisfaction policy, you're leaving this out: " You must ship the products to Dell within five days of the date that Dell issues the Credit Return Authorization Number. You must also return the products to Dell in their original packaging, in as-new condition along with any media, documentation, and all other items that were included in the original shipment, prepay shipping charges, and insure the shipment or accept the risk of loss or damage during shipment. "
for the hard drive, the original packaging would be, um, the machine. and the media and documentation and all other items that were included would be... um... all the stuff that came with the machine wrapped around the hard drive. and the idea that you have dell over a barrel with your 1600.00 machine is hopeful.
but anyway i hope you can get a 5400, i hope i'm wrong. i kinda like being wrong. i find i'm able to dwell on it longer than when i'm right.
i had 2 i5100s come with 5400 drives. the hitachi was slightly faster (more so on read), with occasional startup errors, and quieter. the ibm was noiser, slightly slower, and less prone to error. of course, all this may have been particular to the drives i had.
my new, costlier 5150 will come with a 4200. i'm pretty sure of it. and if it doesn't, i'll spare you the grief and not tell you. (kidding.)
After I thought I had everything straight, and believed what the sales person had told me regarding the fact that 5150 machines no longer come equipped with 5,400 RPM drives, I recently contacted tech support to double check this, and sure enought, they told me that the 5150s are equipped with 5,400 RPM hard drives, so I still do not know what kind of hard drive will come with this machine.
The website ad had represented that the 40GB hard drives went up to 5,400 RPM, but that was recently changed, and states nothing about the speed. There is another section that indicates that 4,200 RPM drives are used in these machines, but that contradicted the former ad in the other section that was there when I made my order.
You misinterpret that portion of the Total Satisfaction policy that says "You must also return the products to Dell in their original packaging, in as-new condition along with any media, documentation, and all other items that were included in the original shipment."
Original packaging means the box, styrofoam, wrapping paper, etc., not the computer itself. Obviously, if the particular item being returned (hard drive) is not individually packaged, it would not make any sense to require that the entire computer be returned. This is a situation where the product can be returned in suitable packaging, such as an envelope containing bubble wrap.
We can go back and forth with this, but the bottom line is, if a customer is not totally satisfied for any reason at all, Dell should accommodate you and make you happy.
i understand the confusion, actually. i had it at one point... was surprised that the 2nd 5100 came with a 5400 drive. but as i said, amid the confusion, i was pretty sure it was going to be a 4200 drive. it was the only sensible conclusion (as in, buyer beware) given the number of indications that it WOULD be a 4200, and the understanding (leeway for sanity's sake) that there are always going to be errors. one does the work, one covers one's self (time allowing).
i'll be REALLY interested in hearing if anyone is able to turn around a 4200 drive with an appeal to total satisfaction. my guess is that they'll do it in some cases, if drives are available. but, as i read the policy, these will be exceptions. as you said, we could argue back and forth, it's a (kinda) close reading. but i think you're leaning pretty heavily on goodwill in your scan of the text; and - in the main - the text wasn't built for goodwill. the CONCEPT of total satisfaction is, of course... due to market realities (and maybe some decency on the part of someone at dell, who knows?)
my read on the policy is: it's a PRODUCT return policy. it's the COMPLETE product as ordered - in total - that's covered. if it's a part that was ordered, it applies to the part. if it's a system that was ordered, then it's the whole system. thus, technically, you're free to return the system, and reorder. of course, at that point, you won't be able to argue that you really thought it was going to be a 5400rpm drive again.
i'm just saying, total satisfaction may not be your best argument here - since i don't believe it applies to the part itself. you're best argument is something like "but you TOLD me you were sending a 5400rpm drive... i was promised a 5400rpm drive... that's the ONLY reason i bought the machine... SEND ME ONE." (which you sorta kinda might be able to argue.) if that fails, then total satisfaction is your bailout, and will serve you well.
my obsessive interest in this is due to the fact that it's a great program. it works, and is affordable to dell (realistically - it's a business) because of its simplicity : order X, return X. i've used it; i'm thankful for it. i hope it remains available for everyone.
but some crazy firestorm of activity claiming the total satisfaction policy is about somewhat dubious spec related issues has the potential (probably overstated in my tiny brain) of souring the policy and causing it to be changed for the worse.
(in closing, please note that i'm NOT saying you shouldn't send the machine back promptly if you're unhappy with it in any way. i'm really picky, so i can't fault that. you should get what you want.)
Just received my 5150 expecting a 5400 rpm HD and was surprised to find the 4200 rpm HD instead. I had the Dell support check on my order and I even have an email stating I would be receiving a 5400 rpm HD. I am calling today!
Well after about 30 minutes of phone conversations I finally got them to understand my problem. I had to order a replacement 40 GB HD with 5400 rpm and I have to return the old 40 GB HD 4200 rpm HD. The new HD is $149 and I get a credit of $39 on the old HD. Hope this isn't to hard to install.
What are you doing? You are only getting a credit of $39 for the old drive???? You should sell your old drive on eBay, and buy a new 40GB 5400rpm drive from
www.googlegear.com for less money!
jmark - cool... this is what i expect of dell, in my experience they make things right (though sometimes the phone rep is a little... well... hard to communicate with... but not impossible, anyway).
umile - what are you talking about? and could you PLEASE send bigger images? (joke. don't.)
As far as I am concerned, I shouldn't owe them a dime to swap out the HD's. I didn't get what I paid for originally which is a 5400 rpm 40 GB HD. We'll see what Dell says about this.
oops. misunderstood. sorry. if you were promised a 5400 at time of order, of course you should get it without additional cost. keep at it... still as i've said, they've made things right for me and those i know... let us know how it goes.
First, Your images show the Fujitsu 4200rpm 60gb hdd shipped w/ i5150 & an alternative Hitachi 5400rpm hdd which may or may not be offered as "additional cost option" depending on availability (to Dell) ...
Read Dell contract fine print, terms of offer, "Dell reserves right to change product specifications without notice ..." - this phrase appears in all contract "terms ..." all manfacturers worldwide ... component supply fluctuates on daily basis, some components simply are not available at any price (to Dell) at certain times - product (notebook) component spec can not be rigidly maintained ... BUT each component is priced individually & not price averaged - in fact Dell actually "subsidizes" a significant number of high-spec notebooks - all components are commodities & subject to rise/fall'g price cycles - this is written into purchasing agreements - most notes can be assembled/sold at profit, perhaps 10% or more will actually be unprofitable, and yet still be offered to buyer ... there has recently been severe shortage of 5400rpm 9.5mm hdd's - globally notebook sales soared upward & simply not enough 5400rpm drives to go around - this has been recent reality - this is why Dell stopped stating hdd spindle speed in advertisements/websites ...
There is a significant cost difference between 4200rpm hdd & 5400rpm hdd - why should Dell or any other manufacturer give this to you for free? Your complaint/demand has changed & grown in this thread ... If Dell gives you additional free value in some way - I must pay more for my Dell notebook - which I will not support ... I believe you are asking for too much, this time ...
What is the $39.00 credit based upon? Did Dell just choose $39.00 out of the blue to credit to your account?
Did you ask for a refund of the hard drive? Do you know what the value of the 4200 RPM hard drive in the machine is?
You are better off returning the hard drive, getting a credit to your account for the full value of it, then purchase one on Googlegear. This is what I plan to do, especially because I now know that Dell will accommodate me since Dell accommadated you under the same exact circumstances.
Please let me know what happens.
Or are you just getting the new hard drive, and your account is getting credited? If the former situation, then the value of the old hard drive is only $39.00, and you are losing $110.00. If the latter situation, then
, that means that the value of the hard drive in your machine, according to Dell, is only $39.00? Help me people, my legal skills may be ok, but not my math.
is that because that is what Dell values the 4200 RPM hard drive to be? That doesn't make sense.
This thread is Dell USA specific ... a Dell notebook shipped w/o hdd will not be covered by terms of warranty, ie: shipped as non-functional system - you must order hdd (even basic offering) - so if Dell credits back $39.00 & you return 4200rpm 60gb - Dell is sending you 30gb 4200rpm "basic drive" - this drive has value (not refunded to you) - but in turn your warranty is maintained ... I believe only recognized institutional purchasers are permitted to order Dell notebooks w/o hdd, where purchaser holds valid multi-user software os license & adds proprietary security apps / utilities - think u.s. gov't agency - Dell warranty will be offered on "non-functional" notes ...
Legaldeejay
12 Posts
0
July 26th, 2003 12:00
The Total Satisfaction Policy includes the hard drive, which may be classified as either hardware, parts or even accessories:
"New Hardware Products and Accessories: All new hardware, accessories, parts, and unopened software still in its sealed package, excluding the products listed below, may be returned within thirty days from the date on the packing slip or invoice. To return applications software or an operating system that has been installed by Dell, you must return the entire computer. A different return policy applies to nondefective products purchased through Dell's Software and Peripherals division by customers of our Small and Medium Business divisions. Those products may be returned within thirty days from the date on the packing slip or invoice, but a fifteen percent (15%) restocking fee will be deducted from any refund or credit. The "Total Satisfaction" Return Policy and Software and Peripherals division return policy are not available for Dell/EMC storage products, EMC-branded products or enterprise software.
IAfter I was told that the 5150 no longer comes equipped with 5400 RPM hard drives, technical support said sales was wrong. So I am even more confused as a consumer, and still do not know what kind of hard drive will be coming with the machine.
More importantly, the fact that the machine was advertised as a 5400 RPM hard drive was a major factor in prompting me to order this machine.
So either Dell will lose $1,600.00, or $110.00. From a business perspective as well, Dell can't refuse.
jellocopter
16 Posts
0
July 26th, 2003 18:00
legaldeejay -
listen, i wish you the best, i'd be happy for you if they took the drive back and sent you a 7200 rpm, really.
but, first you said:
" Were you able to get a full refund on the hard drive because you believed that the hard drive was 5,400 RPM when you purchased it (based upon Dell's advertisements)?
I'd like to do that too, but I inquired about the website error re: 4,200 RPM vs. 5,400 RPM on the 5150 with the sales rep. and discovered that 5150 Inspirons are no longer equipped with 5,400 RPM hard drives. So I really can't play dumb here. "
now you say:
" After I was told that the 5150 no longer comes equipped with 5400 RPM hard drives, technical support said sales was wrong. So I am even more confused as a consumer, and still do not know what kind of hard drive will be coming with the machine. "
sales rep told you beforehand and you can't play dumb? as advertised? and later you remembered the call to the tech?
the answer is, 4200 is advertised and promised. if you get a 5400, bless you. if you get a 4200 and johnny jones gets a 5400 and then gets hit by a truck, then you still got what was advertised.
what kwok did was really different. he prepared completely up front.
regarding the total satisfaction policy, you're leaving this out:
" You must ship the products to Dell within five days of the date that Dell issues the Credit Return Authorization Number. You must also return the products to Dell in their original packaging, in as-new condition along with any media, documentation, and all other items that were included in the original shipment, prepay shipping charges, and insure the shipment or accept the risk of loss or damage during shipment. "
for the hard drive, the original packaging would be, um, the machine. and the media and documentation and all other items that were included would be... um... all the stuff that came with the machine wrapped around the hard drive. and the idea that you have dell over a barrel with your 1600.00 machine is hopeful.
but anyway i hope you can get a 5400, i hope i'm wrong. i kinda like being wrong. i find i'm able to dwell on it longer than when i'm right.
i had 2 i5100s come with 5400 drives. the hitachi was slightly faster (more so on read), with occasional startup errors, and quieter. the ibm was noiser, slightly slower, and less prone to error. of course, all this may have been particular to the drives i had.
my new, costlier 5150 will come with a 4200. i'm pretty sure of it. and if it doesn't, i'll spare you the grief and not tell you. (kidding.)
Legaldeejay
12 Posts
0
July 27th, 2003 03:00
Jellocopter:
After I thought I had everything straight, and believed what the sales person had told me regarding the fact that 5150 machines no longer come equipped with 5,400 RPM drives, I recently contacted tech support to double check this, and sure enought, they told me that the 5150s are equipped with 5,400 RPM hard drives, so I still do not know what kind of hard drive will come with this machine.
The website ad had represented that the 40GB hard drives went up to 5,400 RPM, but that was recently changed, and states nothing about the speed. There is another section that indicates that 4,200 RPM drives are used in these machines, but that contradicted the former ad in the other section that was there when I made my order.
You misinterpret that portion of the Total Satisfaction policy that says "You must also return the products to Dell in their original packaging, in as-new condition along with any media, documentation, and all other items that were included in the original shipment."
Original packaging means the box, styrofoam, wrapping paper, etc., not the computer itself. Obviously, if the particular item being returned (hard drive) is not individually packaged, it would not make any sense to require that the entire computer be returned. This is a situation where the product can be returned in suitable packaging, such as an envelope containing bubble wrap.
We can go back and forth with this, but the bottom line is, if a customer is not totally satisfied for any reason at all, Dell should accommodate you and make you happy.
jellocopter
16 Posts
0
July 27th, 2003 04:00
i understand the confusion, actually. i had it at one point... was surprised that the 2nd 5100 came with a 5400 drive. but as i said, amid the confusion, i was pretty sure it was going to be a 4200 drive. it was the only sensible conclusion (as in, buyer beware) given the number of indications that it WOULD be a 4200, and the understanding (leeway for sanity's sake) that there are always going to be errors. one does the work, one covers one's self (time allowing).
i'll be REALLY interested in hearing if anyone is able to turn around a 4200 drive with an appeal to total satisfaction. my guess is that they'll do it in some cases, if drives are available. but, as i read the policy, these will be exceptions. as you said, we could argue back and forth, it's a (kinda) close reading. but i think you're leaning pretty heavily on goodwill in your scan of the text; and - in the main - the text wasn't built for goodwill. the CONCEPT of total satisfaction is, of course... due to market realities (and maybe some decency on the part of someone at dell, who knows?)
my read on the policy is: it's a PRODUCT return policy. it's the COMPLETE product as ordered - in total - that's covered. if it's a part that was ordered, it applies to the part. if it's a system that was ordered, then it's the whole system. thus, technically, you're free to return the system, and reorder. of course, at that point, you won't be able to argue that you really thought it was going to be a 5400rpm drive again.
i'm just saying, total satisfaction may not be your best argument here - since i don't believe it applies to the part itself. you're best argument is something like "but you TOLD me you were sending a 5400rpm drive... i was promised a 5400rpm drive... that's the ONLY reason i bought the machine... SEND ME ONE." (which you sorta kinda might be able to argue.) if that fails, then total satisfaction is your bailout, and will serve you well.
my obsessive interest in this is due to the fact that it's a great program. it works, and is affordable to dell (realistically - it's a business) because of its simplicity : order X, return X. i've used it; i'm thankful for it. i hope it remains available for everyone.
but some crazy firestorm of activity claiming the total satisfaction policy is about somewhat dubious spec related issues has the potential (probably overstated in my tiny brain) of souring the policy and causing it to be changed for the worse.
(in closing, please note that i'm NOT saying you shouldn't send the machine back promptly if you're unhappy with it in any way. i'm really picky, so i can't fault that. you should get what you want.)
i hope this goes well for you. let us know.
jmark350z
4 Posts
0
July 28th, 2003 10:00
Just received my 5150 expecting a 5400 rpm HD and was surprised to find the 4200 rpm HD instead. I had the Dell support check on my order and I even have an email stating I would be receiving a 5400 rpm HD. I am calling today!
Mark
umile
24 Posts
0
July 28th, 2003 10:00
this is that old
this is that of the new portable
jmark350z
4 Posts
0
July 28th, 2003 12:00
x0lliex
63 Posts
0
July 28th, 2003 16:00
jellocopter
16 Posts
0
July 28th, 2003 16:00
jmark - cool... this is what i expect of dell, in my experience they make things right (though sometimes the phone rep is a little... well... hard to communicate with... but not impossible, anyway).
umile - what are you talking about? and could you PLEASE send bigger images? (joke. don't.)
x0lliex
63 Posts
0
July 28th, 2003 16:00
jmark350z
4 Posts
0
July 28th, 2003 17:00
jellocopter
16 Posts
0
July 28th, 2003 21:00
Beyond2
16 Posts
0
July 28th, 2003 22:00
First, Your images show the Fujitsu 4200rpm 60gb hdd shipped w/ i5150 & an alternative Hitachi 5400rpm hdd which may or may not be offered as "additional cost option" depending on availability (to Dell) ...
Read Dell contract fine print, terms of offer, "Dell reserves right to change product specifications without notice ..." - this phrase appears in all contract "terms ..." all manfacturers worldwide ... component supply fluctuates on daily basis, some components simply are not available at any price (to Dell) at certain times - product (notebook) component spec can not be rigidly maintained ... BUT each component is priced individually & not price averaged - in fact Dell actually "subsidizes" a significant number of high-spec notebooks - all components are commodities & subject to rise/fall'g price cycles - this is written into purchasing agreements - most notes can be assembled/sold at profit, perhaps 10% or more will actually be unprofitable, and yet still be offered to buyer ... there has recently been severe shortage of 5400rpm 9.5mm hdd's - globally notebook sales soared upward & simply not enough 5400rpm drives to go around - this has been recent reality - this is why Dell stopped stating hdd spindle speed in advertisements/websites ...
There is a significant cost difference between 4200rpm hdd & 5400rpm hdd - why should Dell or any other manufacturer give this to you for free? Your complaint/demand has changed & grown in this thread ... If Dell gives you additional free value in some way - I must pay more for my Dell notebook - which I will not support ... I believe you are asking for too much, this time ...
Legaldeejay
12 Posts
0
July 28th, 2003 22:00
Jmark350z:
What is the $39.00 credit based upon? Did Dell just choose $39.00 out of the blue to credit to your account?
Did you ask for a refund of the hard drive? Do you know what the value of the 4200 RPM hard drive in the machine is?
You are better off returning the hard drive, getting a credit to your account for the full value of it, then purchase one on Googlegear. This is what I plan to do, especially because I now know that Dell will accommodate me since Dell accommadated you under the same exact circumstances.
Please let me know what happens.
Or are you just getting the new hard drive, and your account is getting credited? If the former situation, then the value of the old hard drive is only $39.00, and you are losing $110.00. If the latter situation, then
, that means that the value of the hard drive in your machine, according to Dell, is only $39.00? Help me people, my legal skills may be ok, but not my math.
is that because that is what Dell values the 4200 RPM hard drive to be? That doesn't make sense.
Beyond2
16 Posts
0
July 28th, 2003 23:00
This thread is Dell USA specific ... a Dell notebook shipped w/o hdd will not be covered by terms of warranty, ie: shipped as non-functional system - you must order hdd (even basic offering) - so if Dell credits back $39.00 & you return 4200rpm 60gb - Dell is sending you 30gb 4200rpm "basic drive" - this drive has value (not refunded to you) - but in turn your warranty is maintained ... I believe only recognized institutional purchasers are permitted to order Dell notebooks w/o hdd, where purchaser holds valid multi-user software os license & adds proprietary security apps / utilities - think u.s. gov't agency - Dell warranty will be offered on "non-functional" notes ...