I decided to take some time tonight to do some testing with my Imation 48x media in two different 24x10x24 CDRW drives in my Latitude C840. During this testing I found something interesting. The Teac drive in my modular bay will detect the Imation 48x media and write it at 24x. Using the same disc in my GCC-4240N drive it will only detect and write at 10x. This supports the fact that the problem here is with the drive, not the disc.
Doing some testing both drives Using cdr_atip_read.exe, I found some interesting info. I am giving some of the details of what I found here in hopes that someone can use them to help solve this problem. Here are only the differences between the two drives interpretation of the same disc:
Media : CD-R/RW media Media : CD-R media Subtype: Medium Type A, low Beta category (A-) Disc(Matrix) Manufacturer : CMC Magnetics Corporation Recording Characteristics : Short Strategy Type (ex. Phthalocyanine type media) Indicative Target Writing Power : 5 mW Use : Restricted Capacity (nominal) : 702.82 Mb -------------------------------------- * ATIP DATA BLOCK -------------------------------------- Indicative Target Writing Power : 1 | 5 DDCD 0 Reference Speed : 0 Unrestricted Use Disc : 0 Reserved : 0 Disc Type : 0 Disc Sub-Type : 2 A1 Valid : 0 A2 Valid : 0 A3 Valid : 0 Reserved : 0 ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-in(Min) : 97 ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-in(Sec) : 26 ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-in(Frame) : 66 Reserved : 0 ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-out(Min) : 79 ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-out(Sec) : 59 ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-out(Frame) : 71 Reserved : 0 Lowest Usable CLV Recording Speed : 0 Highest Usable CLV Recording Speed : 0 Power Multiplication Factor p : 0 Target y value of the Modulation/Power function : 0 Reserved : 0 Recommended Erase/Write Power Ratio : 0 Reserved : 0 Reserved : 0 A2 Values: [0] [128] [0] Reserved : 0 A3 Values: [0] [0] [0] Reserved : 0
-------------------------------------- * DISC INFORMATION DATA BLOCK -------------------------------------- Reserved : 2 Erasable : 0 State Of Last Session : 0 Disc Status : 0 Number of First Track on Disc : 1 Number of Sessions : 1 First Track Number in Last Session : 1 Last Track Number in Last Session : 1 Disc Identification Valid : 0 Disc Bar Code Valid : 0 Unrestricted Use Disc : 0 Reserved : 0 DBit : 0 BG Format Status : 0 Disc Type : 255 Disc Identification : [0] [0] [0] [0] Last Session Lead-in Start Time(Hour) : 0 Last Session Lead-in Start Time(Min) : 97 Last Session Lead-in Start Time(Sec) : 26 Last Session Lead-in Start Time(Frame) : 66 Last Possible Start Time for Start of Lead-out(Hour): 0 Last Possible Start Time for Start of Lead-out(Min): 79 Last Possible Start Time for Start of Lead-out(Sec): 59 Last Possible Start Time for Start of Lead-out(Frame): 71 Disc Bar Code : [0] [0] [0] [0] [0] [0] [0] [0] Reserved : 0 Number of OPC Tables : 0 -------------------------------------- * ATIP DATA BLOCK -------------------------------------- 00 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 01 | 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 02 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 03 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 04 | 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 0 05 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 06 | 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 07 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 08 | 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1 09 | 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 0 10 | 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0 11 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 12 | 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 1 13 | 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 1 14 | 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 1 15 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 16 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 17 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 18 | 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 19 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 20 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 21 | 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 22 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 23 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 24 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 25 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 26 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 27 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 28 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 29 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 30 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 31 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
I agree, I am equally frustrated with this drive, I can't understand how it's even offered as a default combo drive on Dell's flagship notebook. Anyway, I'll see if I can find a buddy with a sam's membership, otherwise I'll keep an eye out for Verbatim DataLifePlus... so far, here's my media "wish list", or, media that I have heard works at 24x and is available:
KHypermedia 16x CD-Rs (@Officemax)
Memorex Black 48x CD-Rs (Best Buy et al)
I/O Magic 40x CD-R (manufactured by Ritek)
Verbatim DataLifePlus 32x & 48x CD-R
Annnd here is my baaaad list, or, list of media I have tried, to no avail:
Memorex 'Cool Colors CD-R' 40x 700MB... 10x bah!
Imation 40x CD-R 700MB .... 10x {shakes head displeasingly}
Phew... I hope I don't have to buy all of those media brands in the top list... it's times like this that I wish stores sold individual CD-R discs... I'm so poor right now. Thanks, I'll let you know 'Round 4: Memorex Black...' results this weekend.
Office Max had teh I/O Magic 40x CD-R's this week at $9.00 for a spindle of 50 with a $9.00 mail-in rebate (for one spindle). Not a bad deal, $9.00 for 100 blanks, or $18.00 if you don't send in the rebate. Also, the regular price for the discs is $16.99 for the spindle of 50.
You might also want to take note of the new post I have made (actually will be making ) later in this thread...
Well maybe NOW Dell will pay some attention to this message string. Even if they don't have an answer, I'd really like it if they could just say "We know there's something wrong with this drive". While I bask in the lovely conditions of this pipe dream, I'm really not looking forward to a potential waste of money this weekend. Let's all pray to the CD gods and have some faith in Memorex Black, I'd really like it to be the last different brand of media i have to buy... oh yeah, speaking of which, anyone need CDs? I have a whole s!@# load of them now :)
I highly doubt that Dell will do anything based on my last message. I told the tech the same information (well not the details about the media detection application) when I called them on the telephone. They just told me to "buy 24x rated media" to resolve my problem, ignoring the fact that the local store where I shop no longer carries 24x media, and itis getting hard to get 40x rated media from them, as they have limited shelf space. The best response to that they could tell me was "go to a different store, or order media directly from Dell".
As for the media issue, at least I still have me second drive (a modular 24x10x24 CDRW) that can use the 48x media at 24x in my notebook.
Dell Support's sending me out a new drive based on everything I told them about the problem. It should be here in the next few days, I'll post then if anything improves even though I doubt it will. I hope they give me a different brand!
We did talk to Dell support about it and convinced them to send replacement drives (we purchased two 8200s), even though it is a fixed bay. Guess what, the replacement drives were dated Nov 2002 while the ones IN the machines were dated Dec 2002. Seemed a bit odd. Tried them and nothing was different. Hope you have better luck on what you get as replacements.
Well, put me on the list. I can't get mine to burn at anything faster than 10x either. I have tried 4 different disk types, all with speeds rated at 24x or greater. I downloaded the newest version of Roxio and Nero and both confirm burn speeds between 7x to 10x.
I have a media 16x CDRW that will burn all of the different disks that I have tried at a cool 16x.
Sorry, I don't have the packaging for them any longer so I don't have details on all of them but they are Memorex 24x (w/ the blue writeable side), TDK Certified Plus 24x, Verbatim DataLife Plus 36x and a FujiFilm 48x. I also just tried an older 16x Samsung that also burned at only 10x (actually varied between 7x and 9x).
I just bought and tried a Maxell 40x (with the 'Branded Gold Surface') and a Memorex 48x (not blue) and neither would burn above 10x. Both of the Memorex disks I tried (24x & 48x) would only offer me write speeds of 4x and 10x. Nothing faster. All the rest I was able to select a write speed of 24x but they would only burn at 10x.
Also, on another note, using Roxio with the Hitachi 4240 the buffer level usually hovers between 1% and 15%. Before I upgraded to the newest software version it would be at a constant 0% and my cpu load would max out and slow things down further. When I burn on my modular Toshiba 16x the buffer level is usually 70%-100%.
... All the rest I was able to select a write speed of 24x but they would only burn at 10x.
This is an issue which has been discussed several times. These drives use a variable speed with the maximum speed they write at being 24x. They actually start at 10x, then bump up to 16x and finally to 24x, but you need to write a large amount of data to the disc to get to the full speed. When I write my system backups to CD-R, it will start at 10x, and about 40% of the way through the process it will jump to 16x, then at about 500MB (out of 700) it will jump up to 24x. I usually end-up averaging 18x if you include the track lead-in and lead-out times in the average computation...
Also, on another note, using Roxio with the Hitachi 4240 the buffer level usually hovers between 1% and 15%. Before I upgraded to the newest software version it would be at a constant 0% and my cpu load would max out and slow things down further. When I burn on my modular Toshiba 16x the buffer level is usually 70%-100%.
This part sounds like your drive is using PIO mode data trasfers rather than DMA Mode transfers. You might want to go into your Device Manager and check teh settings for your ATA/IDE Controller to see if it is forcing the drive to PIO Mode...
Thanks JersWork for the information, it's nice to get some direct feedback. However, I have checked to make sure that I was using DMA mode. In fact, I have also tried PIO just to test the difference, but am currently running DMA. I have also confirmed that there isn't any IRQ or device conflict and have unistalled/reinstalled both the drivers for the 4020 and for Roxio and Nero a number of times. None of which seems to make any difference as far as the write speed goes.
As for the variable drive speed I have burned full 700mb CDs, both data and music, and have watched the drive speed throughout the process as well as watched the overall time vs. a 24x I have in my desktop. Never has the burn speed gone above 11x, and then only for a moment. In fact, most of the tiime it seems to hover around 7x-9x. And the burn-time is significantly slower than on my desktop. On the order of several minutes for a full CD. I have tried complete disk-disk transfers (mostly) as well as complete and partial HDD-disk copies and all seem to give approximately the same results.
Please, if you have any other suggestions or ideas I'm very happy to experiment.
JersWork
770 Posts
0
January 24th, 2003 02:00
I decided to take some time tonight to do some testing with my Imation 48x media in two different 24x10x24 CDRW drives in my Latitude C840. During this testing I found something interesting. The Teac drive in my modular bay will detect the Imation 48x media and write it at 24x. Using the same disc in my GCC-4240N drive it will only detect and write at 10x. This supports the fact that the problem here is with the drive, not the disc.
Doing some testing both drives Using cdr_atip_read.exe, I found some interesting info. I am giving some of the details of what I found here in hopes that someone can use them to help solve this problem. Here are only the differences between the two drives interpretation of the same disc:
Drive 1: /// Date: Thursday, January 23, 2003, 22:07
Drive 1: /// Comment: Imation 48x (Teac CD-W224E drive)
Drive 1: A2 Values: [0] [128] [0]
Drive 1: Reserved : 2
Drive 1: 18 | 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Drive 1: 21 | 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Drive 1: 02 | 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
Drive 2: /// Date: Thursday, January 23, 2003, 22:17
Drive 2: /// Comment: Imation 48x (HL-DT-ST RW/DVD GCC-4240N Drive)
Drive 2: Reserved : 0
Drive 2: A2 Values: [0] [0] [0]
Drive 2: 18 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Drive 2: 21 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Drive 2: 02 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Here are the full stats for the drive which properly detects/works with this media:
*********************************************************
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
/// Date: Thursday, January 23, 2003, 22:07
/// Comment: Imation 48x (Teac CD-W224E drive)
Media : CD-R/RW media
Media : CD-R media
Subtype: Medium Type A, low Beta category (A-)
Disc(Matrix) Manufacturer : CMC Magnetics Corporation
Recording Characteristics : Short Strategy Type (ex. Phthalocyanine type media)
Indicative Target Writing Power : 5 mW
Use : Restricted
Capacity (nominal) : 702.82 Mb
--------------------------------------
* ATIP DATA BLOCK
--------------------------------------
Indicative Target Writing Power : 1 | 5
DDCD 0
Reference Speed : 0
Unrestricted Use Disc : 0
Reserved : 0
Disc Type : 0
Disc Sub-Type : 2
A1 Valid : 0
A2 Valid : 0
A3 Valid : 0
Reserved : 0
ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-in(Min) : 97
ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-in(Sec) : 26
ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-in(Frame) : 66
Reserved : 0
ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-out(Min) : 79
ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-out(Sec) : 59
ATIP Last Possible Start Time of lead-out(Frame) : 71
Reserved : 0
Lowest Usable CLV Recording Speed : 0
Highest Usable CLV Recording Speed : 0
Power Multiplication Factor p : 0
Target y value of the Modulation/Power function : 0
Reserved : 0
Recommended Erase/Write Power Ratio : 0
Reserved : 0
Reserved : 0
A2 Values: [0] [128] [0]
Reserved : 0
A3 Values: [0] [0] [0]
Reserved : 0
--------------------------------------
* DISC INFORMATION DATA BLOCK
--------------------------------------
Reserved : 2
Erasable : 0
State Of Last Session : 0
Disc Status : 0
Number of First Track on Disc : 1
Number of Sessions : 1
First Track Number in Last Session : 1
Last Track Number in Last Session : 1
Disc Identification Valid : 0
Disc Bar Code Valid : 0
Unrestricted Use Disc : 0
Reserved : 0
DBit : 0
BG Format Status : 0
Disc Type : 255
Disc Identification : [0] [0] [0] [0]
Last Session Lead-in Start Time(Hour) : 0
Last Session Lead-in Start Time(Min) : 97
Last Session Lead-in Start Time(Sec) : 26
Last Session Lead-in Start Time(Frame) : 66
Last Possible Start Time for Start of Lead-out(Hour): 0
Last Possible Start Time for Start of Lead-out(Min): 79
Last Possible Start Time for Start of Lead-out(Sec): 59
Last Possible Start Time for Start of Lead-out(Frame): 71
Disc Bar Code : [0] [0] [0] [0] [0] [0] [0] [0]
Reserved : 0
Number of OPC Tables : 0
--------------------------------------
* ATIP DATA BLOCK
--------------------------------------
00 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
01 | 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 0
02 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
03 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
04 | 1 1 0 1 0 0 0 0
05 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
06 | 1 0 0 1 0 0 0 0
07 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
08 | 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1
09 | 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 0
10 | 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0
11 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
12 | 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 1
13 | 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 1
14 | 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 1
15 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
16 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
17 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
18 | 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
19 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
20 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
21 | 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
22 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
23 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
24 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
25 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
26 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
27 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
28 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
29 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
30 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
31 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
--------------------------------------
* DISC INFORMATION DATA BLOCK
--------------------------------------
00 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
01 | 0 0 1 0 0 0 0 0
02 | 0 1 0 0 0 0 0 0
03 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
04 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
05 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
06 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 1
07 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
08 | 1 1 1 1 1 1 1 1
09 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
10 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
11 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
12 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
13 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
14 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
15 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
16 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
17 | 0 1 1 0 0 0 0 1
18 | 0 0 0 1 1 0 1 0
19 | 0 1 0 0 0 0 1 0
20 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
21 | 0 1 0 0 1 1 1 1
22 | 0 0 1 1 1 0 1 1
23 | 0 1 0 0 0 1 1 1
24 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
25 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
26 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
27 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
28 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
29 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
30 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
31 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
32 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
33 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////
*********************************************************
MichHondaBoy
24 Posts
0
January 24th, 2003 02:00
I agree, I am equally frustrated with this drive, I can't understand how it's even offered as a default combo drive on Dell's flagship notebook. Anyway, I'll see if I can find a buddy with a sam's membership, otherwise I'll keep an eye out for Verbatim DataLifePlus... so far, here's my media "wish list", or, media that I have heard works at 24x and is available:
KHypermedia 16x CD-Rs (@Officemax)
Memorex Black 48x CD-Rs (Best Buy et al)
I/O Magic 40x CD-R (manufactured by Ritek)
Verbatim DataLifePlus 32x & 48x CD-R
Annnd here is my baaaad list, or, list of media I have tried, to no avail:
Memorex 'Cool Colors CD-R' 40x 700MB... 10x bah!
Imation 40x CD-R 700MB .... 10x {shakes head displeasingly}
TDK 32x 'Music CD-R - For audio recording' ... 16x Woohoo! kinda.
Phew... I hope I don't have to buy all of those media brands in the top list... it's times like this that I wish stores sold individual CD-R discs... I'm so poor right now. Thanks, I'll let you know 'Round 4: Memorex Black...' results this weekend.
JersWork
770 Posts
0
January 24th, 2003 02:00
Office Max had teh I/O Magic 40x CD-R's this week at $9.00 for a spindle of 50 with a $9.00 mail-in rebate (for one spindle). Not a bad deal, $9.00 for 100 blanks, or $18.00 if you don't send in the rebate. Also, the regular price for the discs is $16.99 for the spindle of 50.
You might also want to take note of the new post I have made (actually will be making
) later in this thread...
MichHondaBoy
24 Posts
0
January 24th, 2003 15:00
JersWork
770 Posts
0
January 24th, 2003 18:00
I highly doubt that Dell will do anything based on my last message. I told the tech the same information (well not the details about the media detection application) when I called them on the telephone. They just told me to "buy 24x rated media" to resolve my problem, ignoring the fact that the local store where I shop no longer carries 24x media, and itis getting hard to get 40x rated media from them, as they have limited shelf space. The best response to that they could tell me was "go to a different store, or order media directly from Dell".
As for the media issue, at least I still have me second drive (a modular 24x10x24 CDRW) that can use the 48x media at 24x in my notebook.
michael_s
8 Posts
0
January 25th, 2003 22:00
Michael
MichHondaBoy
24 Posts
0
January 25th, 2003 23:00
spatially distu
4 Posts
0
January 26th, 2003 01:00
Mike Souza
1 Rookie
•
23 Posts
0
January 29th, 2003 13:00
Let's start a new post and all come together to see if we can come up with a solution to this problem:
Please go to this post:
http://forums.us.dell.com/supportforums/board/message?board.id=insp_cdrom&message.id=23191
CECarl
179 Posts
0
February 13th, 2003 20:00
Well, put me on the list. I can't get mine to burn at anything faster than 10x either. I have tried 4 different disk types, all with speeds rated at 24x or greater. I downloaded the newest version of Roxio and Nero and both confirm burn speeds between 7x to 10x.
I have a media 16x CDRW that will burn all of the different disks that I have tried at a cool 16x.
MichHondaBoy
24 Posts
0
February 14th, 2003 01:00
CECarl
179 Posts
0
February 14th, 2003 01:00
CECarl
179 Posts
0
February 14th, 2003 02:00
I just bought and tried a Maxell 40x (with the 'Branded Gold Surface') and a Memorex 48x (not blue) and neither would burn above 10x. Both of the Memorex disks I tried (24x & 48x) would only offer me write speeds of 4x and 10x. Nothing faster. All the rest I was able to select a write speed of 24x but they would only burn at 10x.
Also, on another note, using Roxio with the Hitachi 4240 the buffer level usually hovers between 1% and 15%. Before I upgraded to the newest software version it would be at a constant 0% and my cpu load would max out and slow things down further. When I burn on my modular Toshiba 16x the buffer level is usually 70%-100%.
JersWork
770 Posts
0
February 14th, 2003 03:00
CECarl
179 Posts
0
February 14th, 2003 04:00
Thanks JersWork for the information, it's nice to get some direct feedback. However, I have checked to make sure that I was using DMA mode. In fact, I have also tried PIO just to test the difference, but am currently running DMA. I have also confirmed that there isn't any IRQ or device conflict and have unistalled/reinstalled both the drivers for the 4020 and for Roxio and Nero a number of times. None of which seems to make any difference as far as the write speed goes.
As for the variable drive speed I have burned full 700mb CDs, both data and music, and have watched the drive speed throughout the process as well as watched the overall time vs. a 24x I have in my desktop. Never has the burn speed gone above 11x, and then only for a moment. In fact, most of the tiime it seems to hover around 7x-9x. And the burn-time is significantly slower than on my desktop. On the order of several minutes for a full CD. I have tried complete disk-disk transfers (mostly) as well as complete and partial HDD-disk copies and all seem to give approximately the same results.
Please, if you have any other suggestions or ideas I'm very happy to experiment.
Message Edited by CECarl on 02-13-2003 10:25 PM