Area-51 R1, AMD motherboard does not work?

Question

It was stated and 'confirmed' by some users that 'only Intel motherboards are compatible with the Area-51 R1' in order to control led (AWCC, AlienFX). AMD board does not work. Why? Is AlienFX written only for Intel? Turns out that is not true. The trick is to have non AW motherboard (Intel or AMD) and MIO talk to each other.

Cass-Ole · Accepted Answer

p3 cable.JPG

Let's say each desktop came with the exact same U647R case harness, & in its base config it has a pair of GPU cables (each cable has dual connectors, the 6p + 6+2). All U647R will have a short, 2inch 8pin female connector (P3)(top pic). Only the 1100w can use it though ...

If original owner ordered 1kW PSU, they get base U647R & x2 GPU cables

If PSU is 1.1kW, factory installed P3 GPU cable above into U647R case harness as an adaptor that plugs into 2inch P3 cable, thus u get x3 GPU cables. That dual-6pin cable might rate at 150watts, will be on that extra 12volt rail & will account for extra 100watts over the 1100w model. Pretend desktop originally had 1100w, but it no longer does. You buy the case, & install 1000w or 1200w. P3 GPU cable won't work, those PSUs aren't pinned out for it, so it'd be dead. To get it to work, install 1100w

If PSU is 1.2kW, those come with their own pair of GPU cables onboard, plus u get the U647R pair, thus x4 GPU pairs. That = one more GPU cable than an 1100w, thus the extra 100watt rating

1kW = x2 GPU cable | 1.1kW = x3 GPU cable | 1.2kW = x4 GPU cable

*80Plus: I had my 1200w J297R & VHM5V PSUs tested by JonnyGuru.com on their SunMoon load tester. Both PSUs were used, not new, thus they expected lower results than a new one might have produced. Both passed (strong) for 80Silver & by the lowest margin just missed pegging 80Gold numbers (it's possible a brand new sample could've hit Gold). That made sense to them, since both were made by Flextronics, who also made the original Corsair AX1200 Gold. Both Dell models shared almost identical board components w/ the AX1200. We don't know why Dell didn't submit them for 80+ testing; regardless, the 1200watt models are very well made, with perhaps their small 80mil fan being a weak point. VHM5V was issued in response to HD6990 GTX590, it is slightly superior to J297R (x1 large 12volt GPU rail, not x4)

The 1100watt model was used when ordering dual HD5970 (295watt cards), that is or was its limit, ~300w cards. If running dual-GPUs, I'd say the limit these days is the highest power card that has a 6p + 6+2. A dual-8pin card won't work, since P3 has 6pins ...

Area 51d.jpg

To connect dual-GPU (6 + 6+20 configs w/1100w x3 GPU cables (P3) above

It's possible I suppose, to buy a used desktop that originally had a 1000w or 1200w, get it delivered, buy & install an 1100w only to discover there is no 3rd P3 GPU cable in the U647R harness, that'd be expected. When P3 is available, for dual-cards, each card gets a GPU cable's 8pin (6+2), while each card 'shares' a 6pin off of P3

Older GRFX cards relied more heavily on sucking up to 75watts from the physical PCI-E slot, while newer cards like 2080Ti, barely relies on it at all. Therefore, when mathing-out older 295watt HD5970, if we stick to PCISIG specs then we could say the 8pin pulls 150w, 6pin (P3) 75w, PCI-E slot 75watts = 300w. However, the 8pin is on 18amp rail = ~216watts before shutdown. At base specs, one card could pull 225watts from 8pin & 6pin (P3), the rest from PCI-E slot. It's possible the 1100watt could support 2080Ti SLI (250w card, not over-clocked). If PSU shuts off, try VHM5V 1200w instead

Beyond that, I'm not interested in breaking down the side label specs & trying to make sense of each 18amp 12v rail, or how to account for all 1000/1100/1200 watts. If ~10years ago the 1100w supported x2 5970 (295watts each), but today can't support x2 2080Ti (250w each), it'd probably be due to one sucking more power from PCI-E slot & the other doesn't. While it may or may not work on today's GRFX cards to correct some shutdown issues, in the original mthrbrd using older (PCI-E slot hungry) cards, some owners found success by augmenting PCI-E slot power using EVGA PowerBoost

But more specifically, the later Aurora R4 (x2 18a 12volt rails = x2 GPU cables = x4 connectors etc) had a factory GTX 780 SLI (reference style) option. Because the 875w & A51 1000w have same specs (x2 18a 12volt rails = x2 GPU cables), one could imagine the 1000watt could *also run 780's; if so then the 1100watt's 3rd GPU cable (extra 100watts) would be better, 1200w = best

*Imagine x1 GPU cable but with x2 connector ends = 150w + 75w + whatever the PCI-E slot will pull. When 18amps = 216watts, when 780 = 250watt card, we imagine it's trying to pull close to 225watts from x1 cable (over the 8pin + 6pin) & the rest from PCI-E slot (up to 75w). If so, that is why Aurora R4 had a factory-warrantied 780SLI config, using the 875watt with x2 GPUs powered over just x2 12volt rails

If so, 1000watt should replicate that > 1100watt is better (when u deploy 3rd GPU cable / 3rd 12v rail) > 1200w best choice

**Note: while 780 & 1080Ti / 2080Ti may be 250watt cards, 780 by design may pull more from PCI-E slot for extra power. Newer cards may pull less from the slot by design & thereby rely more heavily on the GPU cable(s), & thus their (low by today's standards) 18a rating. If so, our math but more-so our expectations break-down on newer cards. That means, if u could run 780 all day long but experience shutdown issues on 1080Ti, the PCI-E slot power (running on its own separate non-GPU rail, more specifically the 24pin's rail) is what keeps your 780 system alive, while say 1080Ti is taxing GPU rails / gets little help from PCI-E slot & thus trips PSU over-current protection. If so, try a higher rated PSU

***Final note: inspect your case for dual-6pin black P3. If it's there, it is 1100w capable. If it isn't there, you'd be hard-pressed to find one, but I have a bag of loose ones here, PM me to buy one if interested

redxps630 · Accepted Answer

You have got a trove of treasure w these historical documents on Dell. Thank you very much for sharing.

I would like to point out 1100W has 6 x12V rails A-F (18A), the 6th rail versatile, can use AW harness for P3 gpu, can also use T7500 harness for second cpu 8 pin EPS (dual Xeon). many T7500 harness P211H erroneously marketed for A51 (I was gullible as one victim), only to realize it has no 10 pin connector for MIO. There is still good used market of 1100W ($40-50) due to the benefit of many retired T7500 units. Actually AFAIK 1100W only gives 50W more than 1000W in total 12V power combined, according to psu label (1kw not exceed 900w, 1.1 kw not exceed 950w).

The original J297R has 7 x12V rails A-G (11.63A). Presumably the extra 6th and 7th rail are for the two hardwired gpu cables. But each rail max dropped to <12A? My crude math understanding is w 1100W, dual gpu (2 connector), connector2 gets max 18A, connector1 gets max 9A because P3 is split between 2 cards. so total max from connectors are 27A per card. now w 1200W, each connector gets dedicated rail without sharing, but total max is 23.26 A?

1200W VHM5V, 12V(1-3), 15A, 21A, 46A. Presumably the 4 cables tap from the 46A 12V3 rail. Thus each card get 23A if equal share? still less than 27A in 1100W?

Cass-Ole · Accepted Answer

'I'm not interested in breaking down the side label specs & trying to make sense of each 18amp 12v rail, or how to account for all 1000/1100/1200 watts', other than to say that what looks like 'weak sauce' 11Amp rails on J297R are 18Amp rails when tested on a load-tester; I asked JonnyGuru to test if they were 'really just 11', the answer was no, shutdown occurred at ~19.5Amp. That made sense: PSU experts say that if a rail overloads, it should shutdown at or within 10% of its rating, so, Dell's should cut off as early as 18A but more likely at ~20A. A single rail PSU of 1000w should shut off anywhere from 1000w-1100w. That portion of report is belowI think it's truer to say that each rail can individually go to 18A (=19.5A cuts-off), but if all x4 GPU rails exceed 46.5A (11.63 x 4 = 46.5A + 10% = ~51A cut-off) at the same time then shutdown is likely; in other words, it's neither 11.63A at face value (side label spec) nor could it ever be 19.5A (true cut-off) x 4 (78A)As for VHM5V 45.87A rail (+10% = ~50.5A cut-off), it looks weaker on paper but something else is going on there: J297R can not (or couldn't be warrantied / trusted to) run HD 6990 x2 (375w each), while VHM5V was designed to do & did just thatIf the reality is or was that 75w of that 375w card went through the PCI-E slot, we can say VHM5V is designed to reliably deliver 600w or more to two cards without shutting off, regardless the side label. Those labels are a rabbit hole that cant be taken at face value, which is why I don't like to go over the math of them. If u say the 1100w (on paper) has rails that outperform VHM5V, I call BS: it can't, won't run 6990's without shutting offWhat can I say other than Dellware made a special announcement that: 'due to the new 6990 & GTX 590 (includes later 690) we've released an enhanced performance PSU to run two of them' & that PSU is VHM5V*Note: the 216VA (VxA = watts = 18A) & 240VA (20A) designations aren't a topic I want to go over (it doesn't add up, does it ... nope, but who cares). At the end of the day, both possess like ~50A GPU rails (before shutdown), & can run 300w & 375w cards, depending which 1200w u have. 1100w, I showed the list of factory GPU options it ran with. Those charts are real & can help predict what can be installed today using newer GRFX of similar TDP, they're 'more real' in a sense than a 10year old side label that amounts to 'trivia' that I wouldn't rely on against the charts that list warrantied factory options. I'd rather watch a random uTube vid than math out these old PSUs to try & figure out what a cable & a half or a rail and a half might amount toLong before the desktops were discontinued in 2011, all this was solved: 1200w best, 1100w next best, 1000w is base starter PSU & from there we have Alien Charts which represent their best guess as to which GRFX card(s) pair best with their PSUsThat 45seconds (typed) paragraph above, to me is better than 30minutes of endless number-crunching & walls of textWant to do something more constructive than number-crunching 10year old PSU side labels? Put an MIO cable harness together with your bare hands & use it to install a new after-market PSU with a single 100A rail + 10year warranty. If you're successful (u should be), you'll kick yourself for wondering over & wasting time on what a 10year old Dell silver-rated 18A rail can or can't do on paper -->(=Made a cable to use any power supply with the control board of my area 51 R1Crude, but effective&#xa0;&#xa0;

GTS81 · Answer

@redxps630 : I thought AWCC/ AlienFX is written specifically for Dell motherboard. Even 3rd party Intel motherboard won't be able to use the LEDs.

Cass-Ole · Answer

AWCC works with AMD, I proved that with my Vishera on W7 5.5years ago + see three recent Ryzen W10 builds (pic link 1 2 3). Not sure where your info came from, internet rumor ...

AMD Ryzen.jpg

Ryzen 1700 My Ryzen 51 ALX

Ryzen 3600

Jason 51 Ryzen 3700x.jpg

MSI + 3700x, this is Jason's after I helped him install Seasonic PSU using a new black Cablemod set I modded slightly for MIO power last July 2019

redxps630 · Answer

great. I am glad what I heard was misinformation. Thank you for confirming.

I have a separate question on Dell stock psu. Apparently the 1100W psu has one more 12V rail compared to 1kw, but the extra rail is not much useful for gpu as the stock gpu harness already connected to existing 12v rails, presumably each pair of 6+6/2 pin PCIe connector on a dedicated 18A rail. The only advantage I see is that 1100W is 80+ silver. (1200w Dell psu is not 80+). In your experience what is max power for dual gpu this psu can support? I am thinking of nvidia gtx780 or 780ti x 2, TDP 250w each. Reason is 780 though older less efficient than 980, unlikely to be abused from mining, less expensive, and more in line w first generation 4c i7 on stock x58, whereas 980 better for 6c i7 990x. dual gpu more for looks of GeForce than practical. Also, is there RGB heatsink fan available for LGA1366 that you know? Thanks.

Cass-Ole · Answer

I'm not sure about 1366 heatsinks/fans & what's available. Try Google/eBay/PerformancePCs/FrozenCPU search

Note: 2080Ti base spec is 250w, but requires dual-8pins & is therefore best suited to VHM5V 1200w (J297R as next-best choice). Its (or any other) dual-8pin design isn't suited to 1000w 1100w in SLI / X-Fire, but single cards are. Thus, 1000w 1100w PSUs best suited to 6pin / 8pin design cards like a 2080

Last: Dellware used reference design cards & probably didn't expect much if any over-clocking to occur. When I discuss 'ratings' & such, I'm limited to saying something like Aurora R4 875w got 780SLI, but it was a reference design card & probably worked reliably best when not overclocked. How (newer) after-market cards w/higher TDPs & over-clocking potential integrate or perform (or don't) w/these older (conservatively rated) Dell PSUs is hard to predict. If shutdown occurs, move to next biggest size PSU (& sell old PSU). To chance upon old topics like this (will a 780 work etc), search the old read-only archive forum

redxps630 · Answer

wow wow. now in my mind I see you as a walking encyclopedia on A51, and a Star Wars legendary Yoda master. thank you very much for the enlightening dissertation.

I went to look inside A51 and indeed found the super short 8 pin male PCIe plug of harness, but no factory installed P3 cable. I think it is a special long 8 pin female to 2x 6 pin male adapter. rare because most common demand is 2x6 pin female to 8 pin male. Btw I tried to PM you a while back but either IDK how or you were not set up to receive PM.

You just helped me learn that the best power proof hookup for any gpu of two connectors (6+6,6+8,8+8) is to supply each connector w power from separate rails. how I used to think without doubt that 6 and 6(+2 or not) connector split from a single cable was the most natural way. yes that may work too but not great. so the best set up for dual gpu (w dual connector) is 4 rails, only possible w 1200W (btw very $$ in US and I can only find better price outside us), or second best 3 rails w 1100W. The 2 rails w 1000w is really good for dual gpu w single connector (e.g. 9800GT).

It is great to have this discussion w Yoda the master or Professor. Do you happen to know a black 1000W Dell stock psu, generic H1000E-01 series, JR761 (not in autopsy part list)? Do you also happen to know almost everything of pre-Dell A51 (in predator case or P2 and P1)? According to time machine, AW/Dell used to offer 1200W psu in the most high end configuration of ALX X58 or Area 51 X58. curious whether it is the same psu w only different harness back then, or non modular psu.

Cass-Ole · Answer

If I edit my prior post it might disappear as 'spam'. Correction = 1000w: "That dual-6pin cable might rate at 150watts (on paper), will be on that extra 12volt rail & does account for the extra 100watts over the ~~1100w~~ 1000w model."

My PMs are on now, they were off

It may not matter, but it's possible J297R 1200w could be paired to dual-5970 as an option, I can't remember. The 1100w certainly was a factory option. As I said, those older AMD cards probably pulled 75watts from PCI-E slot, 225watts from cables (150 + 75) thus it handled ~300w rated card pairs. How 1100w behaves with newer cards over 225w (of cable power at least), almost all of which GRFX cards these days might not pull but 10w from PCI-E slot (Tom's & AnandTech have been collecting slot power consumption, 1080Ti I think pulled just 10watts or less from slot, meaning 240watts went through the cables) I can't say. In today's terms, 250w card might be a ceiling, regardless if I say it ran 300w 5970 back in the day, right? Where & how much power consumption occurs (cable vs slot) has changed, most comes through the cables now & less through the slot. I'm just saying, yeah, back when, it handled a 300w card, one that pulled 75w of that 300 through the slot … so while u might try 780s tomorrow, someone else reading this next Fall might opt for 2080Ti x2 but get shutdown issues, all the while thinking the 1100w handles dual 300w cards all day long so what is going on? It's similar to a newer net vs older gross horsepower rating issue I guess ...

P3: the short female is an 8-wire, yes, but the P3 dual-6pin male cable is a 6-wire (if it had 8 wires it would've been shipped as a dual 6+2). Dual-8pins are supposedly rated at 300watts, which exceeds the 18A 216w rating, thus I guess they gave it dual-6pins instead (6 wires) to keep it at 150watts max, to meet specs

*While the plastic connectors act as male-female, the PSU terminals inside the connector are how they're described. Short P3 is a female connector (because it has female terminals inside), longer P3 cable is a male (it houses male terminals)

For connecting, JayzTwoCents showed higher results when using two discrete cables, vs one cable with dual-8pins, didn't watch it, but I assume der8auer had advice: PCIe Cables so much does your GPU really need)

With the exception of the P3 dual-6pin helping to power dual cards as shown (2 cards / 3 cables), with the Dell cables (one cable with two connector ends) always best to try to power GRFX cards with two discrete cables / rails (ie pop one connector into card and lay the other side jumper, do same with 2nd cable). What I mean is that in a perfect world, Aurora (and A51 1000w) would've had x3 or x4 discrete cables (& rails) to power something like a 780 SLI. Instead of what they did: two cables (on two 216watt rails) using 4 connectors (in the end, each semi-high power GRFX card runs off just one cable, bummer)

Like here? This 2009/10 demo review desktop sent to the shills at HotHardware, someone hooked the GRFX cards up wrong (below) --> they forgot P3 is in there (or it's a 1200w & they totally forgot the other cable pair's in there). Either way, it's 600watts of cards running off just two cables (2 rails) --> shutdown should occur as rails get over-taxed. I went over it here (& 5 other old posts): Alienware Aurora r4 alx crashes while in game

Below, the 'studio' pic of 1R6H6 shroud, new VHM5V 1200w & dual 6990 I saved from Dell.com? I promise you, 375watt cards cant get powered on a single cable per card, lol, someone forget to hook the other two cables up ...

1313507909228_Alienware_Area_51_Enhanced_PCIe_Shroud_Open.jpg

Below are old Dell connecting charts. With research, u can check reference card specs & get a feel for highest TDP allowed per PSU

*1200w row is J297R --> not shown is VHM5V 1200w row chart, which supported dual (CF / SLI) 6990 590 690
*P3 dual 6pin is also known as P20 & P21

AMD Full Chart.JPG

nVidia 1.JPG

nVidia 2.JPG

old connect chart.JPG

Seasonic chart below: cards over 225w, use two discrete cables per card

I did see that black 1000w a long time ago I think on Taobao; it might fit & work in there but it was never offered in A51, never shipped in one so it didn't make the Autopsy List. What made the list was taken from Chris the Mod here (for clarity, KGTGV = VHM5V / Y915P = J297R)(those are alternate part #'s when 1200w PSU as an assembly comes with caddy & rear trim & maybe a cord, maybe U647R harness too), if not from that post then a different one with an identical part #'s list which he's posted several times. That XPS type never made his lists so never made mine

*eBay/Google, search VHM5V & J297R, as only way I know to find a 1200w

I know little to nothing about the pre-Dell Legacy models, several Predator-era owners frequent the AlienOwners forum for those. I've never seen a pre-Dell 1200w listed on eBay, just the Newton 1000watters & a 750w w/Dell-style 66pin

redxps630 · Answer

I bought a case + harness + PSU.  PSU is 1000W.  harness is U647R.  Dell 5DN3X Studio Xps 9100 Motherboard.  X5670.  NV G310.Win10. ver.1909.  AWCC 2.8.9.

redxps630 · Answer

yes, you are right. thank you for debunking the Dell psu label spec.

regarding the factory installed P3 GPU cable

PCI Express 8-pin Female to 2 Port Dual 8-pin 6+2p Male GPU Power Cable

P3

Connector A: PCIE 8-pin Female
Connector B 2 Port Dual PCIE 8-pin 6+2p Male
Cable Length about 10 inches
18 AWG

Cass-Ole · Answer

Based on your BBased on your post a few days ago, your Alien is working, but with what? What PSU & (case) harness allowed W10 + non-alienboard??? Did u buy an empty case, case + harness, or case + harness + PSU? If empty, what powers W10?Post a picture of your setup for me&#xa0;&#xa0;

redxps630 · Answer

I sent you a link to pic via PM.

redxps630 · Answer

Is it possible to make a custom 10 pin adapter based on 2xsata and 1xmolex?

10 pins are 4x gnd, 3x12V, 1x 5V, 1 5Vsb, 1x 3.3V.

10pin

based on your previous post, it sounds okay to use 5V in place of 5Vsb. just no power to MIO when PC is shut down.

I want to have minimal splicing. this is my crude blueprint part/tool list:

(1) Dell C1100 10-Pin to 2 x SATA Power Sleeved Adapter Cable, $14.99

2 sata to 10 pin

(2) 4 Pin Molex to 6 Pin PCI-Express Converter Adapter $2

molex to 6 pin

(3) ATX Power Supply PSU Pin Remover Tool $9

ATX pin removal tool

two sata provides 4 gnd, 2x 12V, 2x 5V, 2x 3.3V

molex gives 1x12 V (+1x 5V, gnd)

use ATX pin removal tool to back out the pins from 10 pin connector and reposition

insert 1x12V pin backed out from molex-6 pin (replace w 1x 3.3V pin from above).

done. no splicing. no naked pin exposed.

does this sound like a crude but effective plan? budget $26.

Cass-Ole · Answer

From your prior post 'I bought a case + U647R harness + PSU = 1000W'; eBay/google are the only place I know to get another case harness from right now, keep your eyes open, an unavailable item today might pop up next week Your new post re: 10pin looks interesting enough that I'm going to start a new post, so direct your reply into my new post

Alienware Desktops

Area-51 R1, AMD motherboard does not work?

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