HanoverB
3 Cadmium

Re: XPS 8930 Corsair CPU Liquid Cooler, GTX 1080 Hybrid, upg


@AlienBlaster wrote:

There is one thing you can try.

One thing that your XPS 8930 has but none of XPS 8910/8920, NZXT H500 and Meshify C Mini has is a front panel Type-C port. It could be the source of your startup error that's specific to 8930. 

Since 8930 has only one Type-C port in the FP, I am guessing only one of the USB 3.1 headers on your motherboard is needed to scan that. You may think you need both but chances are you happened to plug that in as the second one.

Well, it's possible that both headers are needed for some reason, but it is worth a try at least.

 


AB

Thanks for the suggestions.  Likely the Type C implementation has something to do with it as the connectors required for startup are very specific, the blue connector to the blue USB header, the black one to the black.  

The 20 pin USB headers are good for 2 USB 3.0 devices.   On the XPS 8930, the blue header is for the USB 3.1 Gen 1 Type C port and the Left USB 3.1 port.  The black header is for the right two USB 3.1 ports.    This we tested as we unplugged the connectors in a working machine to make sure.

The front USB 3.1 Type C port is only 5 Gbps, the same speed as the other 3.1 USB ports.   Just a different connector.  But like you said the blue connector might be looking for some voltage signal from that connector and makes that blue specific. 

We tried every combination of USB connections into both connectors. 

We did two different cases just in case it was a case specific issue, or perhaps a bad connector in the new case.   But we got the same results both times unfortunately and the ports worked once we got past the startup error.  The connectors in the new cases look exactly like the Dell connectors.  Perhaps there is a case out there that would not cause an error. but not these two models.

The NZXT machine I am working with has no errors on wake from sleep, so it's strictly a startup error.  

BTW I really like that Meshify case.  Each bag of screws labeled for what they were for, slide in brackets for the 3.5 HDD, steel seemed to be of heavier gauge than the NZXT.   Little more quality, but it is also $20-$30 more than that case.  I am glad your case swap went smoothly.

Let me know if you think of anything else I can try.

 

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AlienBlaster
2 Bronze

Re: XPS 8930 Corsair CPU Liquid Cooler, GTX 1080 Hybrid, upg

In that case, the only thing to try is to plug the H500 header in black, and the Dell blue header in blue. That must be something else then.

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HanoverB
3 Cadmium

Re: XPS 8930 Corsair CPU Liquid Cooler, GTX 1080 Hybrid, upg


@AlienBlaster wrote:

In that case, the only thing to try is to plug the H500 header in black, and the Dell blue header in blue. That must be something else then.


Yep.  That's the first thing we tried in both cases as it should have worked......oh well.

Must be something about that IO board that is unique.

Thanks for the reply.

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Highlighted
HanoverB
3 Cadmium

Re: XPS 8930 Corsair CPU Liquid Cooler, GTX 1080 Hybrid, upg



Update on case swap.  Good news.

After exploring the possible workarounds on the NZXT and Fractal case swaps, I was able to complete a successful case swap on the XPS 8930!

It is not as straight forward as on the XPS 8910 or 8920.  The machine needs certain connections from the top IO panel to boot without errors.   It also requires bypassing the motherboard USB headers as part of the workaround.  Not that difficult to do.

Requirements:

  • USB connector from the XPS 8930 top IO panel, both blue connector and black connector installed on the motherboard. Blue to blue connector.  Black to black connector.
  • SD card connector from the IO panel to the motherboard Card Reader header
  • Jumper on motherboard front panel connector on pins 5 and 9.
  • PCIE USB 3.0 card with a 20 pin USB 3.0 connector onboard. Connect the front panel USB connector on the new case to connectors on the installed PCIE USB 3.0 card.  

 

IMG_7581.jpg

Notes:

-I used two different PCIE x1 USB cards that installed in the lower PCIE x4 slot, one powered and the other non-powered.  Both worked fine and transfer rates were as fast as the XPS 8930 USB 3.1 front panel ports using CrystalDisk.  The USB connection cable on the new case reached that lower PCIE card easily,

-Cost for the case swap would be price of the case + PCIE USB 3.0 card.

-If you need a jumper for the 5 to 9 pins in a pinch, unscrew the power button on top of the XPS 8930 and bring it into the case.  Turn it 180 degrees and use the jumpered connectors on pins 5 to 9.  Fits fine next to the other connectors on the front panel header. Temporary fix till you can make or find a better jumper.

-The NZXT H500 case is a little larger than the Meshify Mini C.  It is the same size as the Meshify (non-Mini) version.  The larger case makes it easier to hide the IO panel .  Try to secure it the best you can. I was able to fasten the IO panel on top of the HDD cage in the NZXT case using some double sided moulding tape.

-Disassembling the XPS 8930 is relatively easy.  The top cover lifts off once you lift up and out on one side. The motherboard, PSU and upper IO panel are removed with just a few screws.  The USB connectors and wires, SD card reader connector, and HD audio wires connected to the IO panel pull through the large opening on the top of the chassis. 

Io Panel.JPG

 

There are only two connectors from the PSU to the motherboard, the 24 pin ATX connector on the right next to the RAM and the 4 pin CPU power cable in the upper left corner.  Pic of motherboard is here.  Just take pictures if not sure and refer to the online XPS 8930 manual for particulars.  It's not that difficult.  The screw locations for removing and installing the motherboard are marked by white circles.  These should match up to the motherboard standoffs on the new case.

s-l1600 (1).jpg

 

-The only tricky part is the wireless card. It mounts just to the left of the Dell logo on the motherboard.   You have to remove the wires from the card to pull them up through the opening on top of the case.  But you have to first remove the single small phillips screw to take the card off the motherboard and pull the plastic cover off the card itself to get to the antennas.   They snap onto the connectors which are color coded.  Easy once you figure it out.

 

Dell Wireless card.JPG

 

There are also clips on top of the rear IO shield that open to release the cables.   Put the antennas anywhere you want in the new case.  I ran the cables up to the top of the case and they stuck on the backside with the glue still on the antenna ends.

Picture of clips

IMG_7348.jpg

Picture of wireless card and plastic cover you need to remove to uninstall wires

IMG_7350.jpg

IMG_7353.jpg

-Several  videos on the builds using the NZXT case and Meshify case out there.    Too many to count.  I watched the ones from Science Studio and the NZXT Builders workshop videos, made putting the parts into the case very easy.  Mounted the SSD drives behind the motherboard and my spinning drives into the HDD brackets.  Cable management is a breeze.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xzfkTRKlUcA

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLJNNUd79ko

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBPlGUwbJT0

-You will need a SATA to SSD cable that has a straight connector on one end when mounting the SSD flat on the panel on the back of the motherboard.  The black SATA cables are 90 degree angles in the XPS 8930 for the HDD on both ends, the red optical drive cable is 90 degrees at the motherboard, straight at optical drive. So if you using a SSD, use that red optical drive cable on the SSD when it is mounted flat on the backside of the new case.   Two SATA connectors on the motherboard under the GPU need to be right angle at those connections. Flat flexible connector will work as well if you can fold them back.  SATA connectors with clips will not fit under the GPU so be forewarned.

The blue connector is the first SATA header, the tan connector is the second SATA header.  In a final build I would have the onboard NVME SSD as my boot drive, and have the red SATA cable connected from the SSD mounted behind the motherboard to the first blue SATA header.   The black SATA cable can be connected from the second tan SATA header to the hard drive bay if you have any mechanical drives being used as storage.

SATA connectors.JPG

 

-The NZXT case comes with a breakout cable you have to use to create individual front panel connectors to the motherboard.  Otherwise you will not be able to jump pins 5 to 9.

IMG_7434.jpg

IMG_7445.jpg

-For some reason a 20 pin USB 3.0 female to 9 pin USB 2.0 male cable I had laying around when I connected it to the black header of the motherboard did not cause a startup error.  Don’t know what the wiring is like in the cable to keep a startup error from occurring.  Upside of this is that you can use the cable for USB 2.0 connected controllers for RGB lighting and fan speeds.   Otherwise you would run a USB cable with the appropriate end termination from the back IO panel into the case to do that.   

Question is now do I keep the case swap machine or revert back to my modded XPS 8930 case.

Meet NZXT's latest take on the mid-tower PC case: the H500. Its refined look ans S340-ish qualities make it a true contender for my favorite case in the $70 price category. Let's see how it stacks up! Check out the NZXT H500! On Amazon: http://geni.us/kXNwMe On Newegg: https://bit.ly/2HQPABR ---PC
FRACTAL DESIGN MESHIFY C: http://amzn.to/2wTg0cE FRACTAL DESIGN DEFINE C: http://amzn.to/2ws469t PATREON: http://www.patreon.com/ScienceStudioYT TWITCH: http://www.twitch.com/ScienceStudioYT FACEBOOK: http://www.facebook.com/ScienceStudioYT TWITTER: http://www.twitter.com/GregSalazarYT INSTAGRAM:
The latest addition to the H-Series, the H500 and H500i compact mid-tower ATX cases are both stunning and an excellent value. Perfect when you want a small-footprint ATX case without sacrificing features. A removable radiator mounting bracket, flush tempered glass window, and multiple fan filters
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rwgordon
2 Bronze

Re: XPS 8930 Corsair CPU Liquid Cooler, GTX 1080 Hybrid, upg

More good work HanoverB, do you have a link/ brand of your pcie cards. Seems like if you go to the big auction site there is alot of them but questionable brands and sources. Did Windows require any drivers for them? Did you try the 20 pin to 9pin in a mix with your new case 20 pin usb to see if that would give you an error free start up?

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AlienBlaster
2 Bronze

Re: XPS 8930 Corsair CPU Liquid Cooler, GTX 1080 Hybrid, upg

Glad it all worked out! Great job HanoverB. I am sure the extra miles you went brought you extra pleasure.

How are temps now? Seeing any improvement? It might be the key deciding factor for you regarding whether going back to the old case.

Now we have one successful case for each of 8910, 8920 and 8930, I think it's time to make a master thread with focus on case swaps. I know Zeus already has a very nice and detailed thread but that's more specific to a particular model (8920 SE) with a particular case (NZXT H500). As you have experienced, there could be a lot of variables for different scenarios. It will be very useful to have them documented in a central thread.

There is a lot of useful information that we can share regarding to case swaps and cooling and noise control of XPS desktops in general, such as cooler and fan choices, configuration and placement. In my experience, they can make significant differences to the final outcomes.

I know this thread has a lot of related information already, but the problem is that your original title and motivation suggests on liquid cooling which may not be attractive to many users. I recommend you take the lead on making the master thread as you are a true expert and pioneer in many things, and are really good at documenting them. We can then link or copy all related information (such as Zeus's thread) to the master thread to make it easy to read and discuss for everybody.

 

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HanoverB
3 Cadmium

Re: XPS 8930 Corsair CPU Liquid Cooler, GTX 1080 Hybrid, upg


@AlienBlaster wrote:

Glad it all worked out! Great job HanoverB. I am sure the extra miles you went brought you extra pleasure.

How are temps now? Seeing any improvement? It might be the key deciding factor for you regarding whether going back to the old case.



AB

The CPU temps in the NZXT case are perhaps 3-4C degrees cooler than in the original case with liquid cooling.  Similar setup as intake fan in the upper position. Thought it would be more because of the wider 25mm fan on the cooler, better airflow and one more fan in the case as exhaust.   However, the machine is a lot quieter under load at these lower temps.  This is because the CPU cooler fan on the radiator never got above 670 RPM on the testing due to the conservative motherboard fan curve.

The GPU temps were pretty much the same. I think that is because I am running the GPU as exhaust in the new case whereas I had it as intake on the XPS 8930.  The fan on the GPU did run at a lower RPM and that is probably because of the lower intake fan pulling cool air in below the GPU(same setup as yours).

I think perhaps the effect of the new case might be more obvious if we were overclocking where we would then be testing the thermal limits of the radiators.  Right now the radiator and fans are just cruising along (CPU fan 600-700 RPM at load).

NZXT H500 Temps:

Windows 10 Home 64 bit
CPU  i7 8700
16GB stock Dell RAM
Corsair H60 (2018) CPU cooler with stock SP120 PWM  fan to CPU FAN header, tach cable to TOP FAN header
MSI SeaHawk GTX 1080 Hybrid GPU with liquid cooler and stock SP120 fan fixed speed to PSU. 
(2) NZXT Aer F120 case version fans fixed speed to PSU  (1200 RPM, 50.42 CFM, 28 dBa)
Seasonic Focus Plus Gold 850W PSU
Samsung 970 EVO 1GB NVMe PCIE M.2 2280 SSD as boot drive
Samsung 860 EVO iTB SATA III 2.5" SSD


***Prime 95 v2.66 CPU Torture Test, Small FFT, 12 cycles.  30 minutes:    

CPU temp end of test runs 68C.  Max temp 72C 
Thermal throttling: NO
Clock speeds stable at 3492 mHz (~10% overclock @ 65W TDP), max 4290.5 mHz
Voltage stable at 1.022, max was 1.3

Upper Intake Fan (CPU FAN) for CPU cooler max RPM 670

***3d Mark Fire Strike Test for system at 1080P, ~ 7min.:

CPU Temps during  test max temp 66C 
Upper Intake Fan (CPU FAN) for CPU cooler max RPM 601

GPU Temps: Max 58C
GPU Fan speed, 1679  RPM 
GPU Clock max at 1987 mHz

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HanoverB
3 Cadmium

Re: XPS 8930 Corsair CPU Liquid Cooler, GTX 1080 Hybrid, upg


@AlienBlaster wrote:


Now we have one successful case for each of 8910, 8920 and 8930, I think it's time to make a master thread with focus on case swaps. I know Zeus already has a very nice and detailed thread but that's more specific to a particular model (8920 SE) with a particular case (NZXT H500). As you have experienced, there could be a lot of variables for different scenarios. It will be very useful to have them documented in a central thread.

There is a lot of useful information that we can share regarding to case swaps and cooling and noise control of XPS desktops in general, such as cooler and fan choices, configuration and placement. In my experience, they can make significant differences to the final outcomes.

I know this thread has a lot of related information already, but the problem is that your original title and motivation suggests on liquid cooling which may not be attractive to many users. I recommend you take the lead on making the master thread as you are a true expert and pioneer in many things, and are really good at documenting them. We can then link or copy all related information (such as Zeus's thread) to the master thread to make it easy to read and discuss for everybody.

 


AB

Thanks for the compliments  Nice of you, but hardly.  I am just a tinkerer that is willing to step outside of the box to figure things out.  I fortunately have the rest of the community to help me out when I have questions.

In regards to a main case swap thread, I sent a PM on to Zeus about perhaps changing the title on his NZXT case swap thread to a more generic title.  As you mentioned, the H500 case on the title limits the participation in that thread and those instructions wouldn’t work for the XPS 8930.

I am still waiting for a response.  In the meantime I slightly changed the title of this thread to reflect some of the other content.   Let’s wait on Zeus’ response before making a decision on a main case swap thread.   Your case swap is definitely worthy of being the initial post, its well written and has good pictures.  Who starts the thread isn’t so important. 

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HanoverB
3 Cadmium

Re: XPS 8930 Corsair CPU Liquid Cooler, GTX 1080 Hybrid, upg


@rwgordon wrote:

More good work HanoverB, do you have a link/ brand of your pcie cards. Seems like if you go to the big auction site there is alot of them but questionable brands and sources. Did Windows require any drivers for them? Did you try the 20 pin to 9pin in a mix with your new case 20 pin usb to see if that would give you an error free start up?




RWG,. here are the two cards I used.  Both were plug and play with W10.  Tesla and Speedstep were discussing USB 3.0  PCI E cards in a thread somewhere and how certain cards were better than others in the Dell machines.  I thought I had it bookmarked.  They mentioned certain chipsets made better USB controllers.  I will keep looking for it.

I do know that these USB 3.0 cards depending on if they are PCI x 1 or PCI x2 can offer more power.   (longer card that take up more connectors, up to x4 in the XPS 8930) I also know that if you pay two to three times as much, you can get a USB 3. card  that has dedicated bandwidth for each USB port rather than sharing the bandwidth across all the ports for a particular card.  So it comes down how demanding the user is with the USB 3.0 interface.

At some point when you factor in the cost of a PCI-E card, then you have to look at a new motherboard that can do the same without the limitations of the loss of the XPS motherboard headers in a new case.

Here is the Realtek (Fresco on Device manager ) chip, non-powered card

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00JFR2H64

Here is the Via chip with onboard power

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B007SJGGAE

Both relatively inexpensive.   Looking for a card that can handle Oculus on reviews would give you an idea how robust a particular card is.

Both cards tested out with similar USB 3.0 speeds when connected to the front panel of this NZXT case as when connected to the original front headers of the XPS 8930.  I used a non-powered Toshiba USB 3.0 portable HDD to test the speed as that should test the power capability of the PCIE card with no power.

Pic of installed cards and connectors

Powered card

IMG_7529.jpg

Non-powered card in case with working case swap, IO panel hidden.  The front radiator is hidden in front of the fan behind the front bezel.

IMG_7581.jpg

 

Here is a pic of the USB 3.0 female to USB 2.0 male connector that did not cause a startup error when connected to the black header on the motherboard.  I  could not get the front headers on the new case to work when I tried different combination of connectors using this cable.  That blue cable has to be connected into the blue header.

IMG_7542.jpg

 

 

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HanoverB
3 Cadmium

Re: XPS 8930 Corsair CPU Liquid Cooler, GTX 1080 Hybrid, upg

Picture of the rear IO panel without a shield on the NZXT 500.  The Meshify case has the panel a little more inset rather than close to flush on the NZXT case.

Not hideous, but could be cleaner looking with a shield there.

Also a picture with that mesh DIY shield from the big auction site. Nice color match, black.  Adhesive on one side to attach outside the case or can be maneuvered inside the case behind the IO connectors, especially in the Fractal case that AlienBlaster is using where there is a large gap there to work with.

IMG_7586.jpg

IMG_7587.jpg

IMG_7595.jpg

 

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