Aurora R13, PCIe x4 slot not working?

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@F34R wrote:

Does everyone reading this understand that the GPU(RTX 3080) and the NVME drive that was shipped with the PC is WORKING?  It's putting a Elgato 4kPro mk.2 in the PCIe x4 slot just above the GPU, and the Elgato card, as well as trying a PCIe>NVME adapter, is NOT working, while everything else is still working? 

 

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I think so. I hope so. I do ...

But just so there is no confusion (like you are trying to run 3 PCIe cards as once or something) maybe phrase it like this.

With only the supplied NVMe-SSD (installed in its M.2 motherboard-slot) and the Nvidia RTX-3080 (in it's PCIe x16 slot) that works.

However, if I install ONE one other PCIe x4 Addin-card, it is not detected by Windows and will not work. I have tried either a Elgato-4K60-Pro-mk2 and also (separately) a PCIe x4 NVMe-SSD Adapter/Holder card. Both x4 slots were tested with same result (card not detected).

Something like that.

It doesn't bother me at all.  I appreciate all the help from every avenue.  The support in the DM is replying from the info they receive from the engineering team.  

I was maybe getting a little too worked up, so I was starting to let it get to me and I developed an attitude toward what was going on.  Sorry if I came off that way.  I also apologized to the support team in the DM's.

I verified it was running at x8.  Seems the support teams have confirmed my issues and are working on a fix now.  See the last reply in the thread.

@Tesla1856 

@Vanadiel 

@F34R 

There are 5 issues.

Secure Boot ON will not allow drivers or hardware that isnt OEM signed in BIOS to load so it won't show up in device manager.

PCI-E is not ronco set and forget all versions all slots etc.

What PCI-E version is the Elgato Card.  THIS HAS ZERO to do with X1 or X4 or X8 or X16 Lanes.   Version 1.0 and 2.0 line code is 8b 10b.  Version 2.1 and 3.0 is 128b  130b Line code.

Bios will not down clock the bus PHY to handle a slow card.

This is why Some Dell Systems have special X4 slots that are PCI-E 2.0 for the X4 slots and PCI-E 3.0 for the X16 slots.

This is a known issue back to 2009 and windows 7.

Pci-e 3 phy mplementation Intel Design Forum 2009 

Both line code and bus speed and power available at the slot is different between 2.0  and 3.0   4.0

Fitting into any slot is NOT a guarantee that the PHY will negotiate correctly.

Windows 10 21H2 and Windows 11 now REQUIRE DCH WHQL signed drivers.  That requires paying microsoft royalties for testing and certification.  This is also why INTEL threw in the towel for Thunbolt 3 and gave all the rights to the USB forum to make it USB 4.0

PCIe 1.0 | PCIe Gen 1 interface

Following are the features of PCIe 1.0 or PCIe Gen 1 interface type:
• Introduced in the year 2003.
• PCIe 1.0 uses line code 8b/10b.
• It supports transfer rate of 2.5 GT/s (~2.5 Gbps). Transfer rate is encoded serial bit rate.
• It supports interconnect bandwidth of 2 Gb/s.
• It supports throughput of 250 MB/s. Throughput is pre-coded data rate prior to encoding. Throughput is also called "Bandwidth Lane Direction".
• It supports total bandwidth for x16 link of ~8 GB/s.

PCIe 2.0 | PCIe Gen 2 interface

Following are the features of PCIe 2.0 or PCIe Gen 2 interface type:
• Introduced in the year 2007.
• PCIe 2.0 uses line code 8b/10b.
• It supports transfer rate of 5.0 GT/s.
• It supports interconnect bandwidth of 4 Gb/s.
• It supports bandwidth lane direction of ~500 MB/s.
• It supports total bandwidth for x16 link of ~16 GB/s.
PCIe 3.0 | PCIe Gen 3 interface

Following are the features of PCIe 3.0 or PCIe Gen 3 interface type:
• Introduced in the year 2010.
• PCIe 3.0 uses line code 128b/130b.
• It supports transfer rate of 8.0 GT/s.
• It supports interconnect bandwidth of 8 Gb/s.
• It supports bandwidth lane direction of ~1 GB/s.
• It supports total bandwidth for x16 link of ~32 GB/s.
PCIe 4.0 | PCIe Gen 4 interface

Following are the features of PCIe 4.0 or PCIe Gen 4 interface type:
• Introduced in the year 2017.
• PCIe 4.0 uses line code 128b/130b.
• It supports transfer rate of 16.0 GT/s.
• It supports interconnect bandwidth of 16 Gb/s.
• It supports bandwidth lane direction of ~2 GB/s.
• It supports total bandwidth for x16 link of ~64 GB/s.

It's a 2.0 spec.  However, putting the same card in a x8 slot that is 4.0 interface does accept the 2.0 interface card and it works properly.  They have now acknowledged there's a problem with the x4 slots and are working on a fix.

Also the PCIe 5.0 x16 slot has the RTX 3080 which is a PCIe 4.0 interface x16 card.

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@Vanadiel wrote:

It might be as simple as a driver or a BIOS patch. I was looking in the specs the other day, and noticed the X4 slots are PCIe 3.0, not 5.0.

So that means they are connected to a controller chip of some kind, and not directly linked with the processor lanes.

 

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And SpeedStep said:

This is why Some Dell Systems have special X4 slots that are PCI-E 2.0 for the X4 slots and PCI-E 3.0 for the X16 slots.

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Sounds like yall are both generally talking about the same/similar situation.  

It might be as simple as a driver or a BIOS patch. I was looking in the specs the other day, and noticed the X4 slots are PCIe 3.0, not 5.0.

So that means they are connected to a controller chip of some kind, and not directly linked with the processor lanes.

It looks like they have identified the issue at this point, so I am sure a fix is incoming in the next weeks.

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@speedstep wrote:

@Tesla1856 

@Vanadiel 

@F34R 

There are 5 issues.

 

Good list of Possible Issues.

I try not to forget that this issue has appeared on multiple Aurora-R13, with multiple different PCIe Addin Cards, and affecting multiple owners. Even Dell now acknowledges the existence of an issue.

I would hope that affected owners would go ahead and switch SecureBoot off temporarily while troubleshooting it.

While dis-proven, I thought the shortage of PCIe-Lanes might have been the issue since the video-card now gets it's full 16 (not just limited to x8, like some previous-gen Auroras). Anyway, we move forward.

Right, the various versions of PCIe don't take more lanes or resources, but still provide better throughput. Aren't technology advances fun ?

Your PHY info is interesting. My only comment at this point is that I would think a certain amount of this would be resolved via the Backwards Compatibility built-into the specs and protocols. 

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@F34R wrote:

1. I verified it was running at x8. 

2. Seems the support teams have confirmed my issues and are working on a fix now.  See the last reply in the thread.

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1. Great, thanks for following-thru.

2. Yes, I saw. That is a substantial development in ultimately resolving this issue (getting Dell to understand the issue clearly, and then confirming the existence of an issue). 

Your technical ability has been an asset here. Also, your persistence and patience. 

All the testing I have done has been with secure boot on, then retested with secure boot off.  

I've phrased it like that multiple times.  It's all good now, since they are working on an issue they've acknowledged.

The R13 x4 PCIe Expansion slots are PCIe v4.0.  The x16 slot is v5.0.

The Alienware team purchased the following cards =
Cam Link Pro PCIe x4
Elgato 4K60 Pro PCIe x4

Both failed to function on the Aurora R13 PCIe x4 Gen 3 slots. Cards not found. Applications stated, Nvidia RTX 3080 not used for video encoding.

Still under investigation.

Thanks for the update.  Let them know that using a PCIe to NVME adapter card in those slots doesn't work either.

Dear Dell Team,

We would appreciate it if you could keep us updated on this matter.

We would like to resolve the situation satisfactorily for our mutual client.

Your engineering could feel free to contact me with my registered email.

With kind regards
Victor
QA Specialist
Elgato